BSS Compliance, Boat heater.

[Quandary]

My boat is five years old so as we berth in the Crinan Canal we have to have to have our boat inspected and certified this summer. Until now it has been covered by the builders CE certificate. I spent a wet afternoon today going through the regs. and it seems I need to deface my pristine external grp and internal wood work with a number of dopey labels and install a bubble tester in the gas locker.
The remaining questions refers to the fuel supply to the Eber. which like the supply to the engine emerges from the top of the tank but unlike it does not have a cut off tap. Two questions arise, first, the Eber. supply pipe is copper as I understand plastic diesel pipe is not acceptable to the regs. but elsewhere in the advice paragraphs it states that copper pipes are not suitable for use with diesel fuel, I presume it must affect the fuel in some way, can anyone explain?
The second question is how to achieve effective emergency fuel supply cut off as demanded; I have a dedicated switch for the Eber electrics which can be used to cut off the 12v. supply to stop the fuel pump (and the fan) and since the heater is much higher than the tank should effectively stop fuel supply, in the opinion of the panel is this a satisfactory method? I do not want to try to install a tap in such a fine copper fuel line even if I could find one small enough it would have to be installed like the tick tick pump by sleeving with rubber providing another potential point for leaks.

 

[Kylora]

the Eber. supply pipe is copper as I understand plastic diesel pipe is not acceptable to the regs. but elsewhere in the advice paragraphs it states that copper pipes are not suitable for use with diesel fuel, I presume it must affect the fuel in some way, can anyone explain?

Have a read through the first post in this thread - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307298

I would say, if your diesel is relatively clean and dry then two or three months should be possible. If you have copper fuel lines fitted you may find even this short period of time too long to have the heater start reliably first time. Unfortunately copper degrades modern diesel fuel at an alarming rate and as the boat safety scheme will not let us use any alternative we are where we are.

Ash

 

[pvb]

My boat is five years old so as we berth in the Crinan Canal we have to have to have our boat inspected and certified this summer. Until now it has been covered by the builders CE certificate. I spent a wet afternoon today going through the regs. and it seems I need to deface my pristine external grp and internal wood work with a number of dopey labels and install a bubble tester in the gas locker.
The remaining questions refers to the fuel supply to the Eber. which like the supply to the engine emerges from the top of the tank but unlike it does not have a cut off tap. Two questions arise, first, the Eber. supply pipe is copper as I understand plastic diesel pipe is not acceptable to the regs. but elsewhere in the advice paragraphs it states that copper pipes are not suitable for use with diesel fuel, I presume it must affect the fuel in some way, can anyone explain?
The second question is how to achieve effective emergency fuel supply cut off as demanded; I have a dedicated switch for the Eber electrics which can be used to cut off the 12v. supply to stop the fuel pump (and the fan) and since the heater is much higher than the tank should effectively stop fuel supply, in the opinion of the panel is this a satisfactory method? I do not want to try to install a tap in such a fine copper fuel line even if I could find one small enough it would have to be installed like the tick tick pump by sleeving with rubber providing another potential point for leaks.

I think you need to read the BSS more carefully.

Copper pipe is fine for diesel fuel lines. I can't see anything in the BSS which says copper isn't suitable.

You don't need a tap in the Eberspacher fuel line. BSS 8.1.2 says "Appliances fitted with electrical fuel-supply pumps that shut off the fuel supply when the pump is not in use, are an acceptable alternative to manually-operated valves or cocks."

 

[Quandary]

I had read that (Ashonavega's link) but was nonplussed by the reference to 'modern' diesel fuel, it implies a problem with bio. or some other additive, does anyone know what the actual problem is? lots of boats have copper fuel lines but this problem has only come in to my sphere of conciousness recently.

 

[Quandary]

I think you need to read the BSS more carefully.

Copper pipe is fine for diesel fuel lines. I can't see anything in the BSS which says copper isn't suitable.

You don't need a tap in the Eberspacher fuel line. BSS 8.1.2 says "Appliances fitted with electrical fuel-supply pumps that shut off the fuel supply when the pump is not in use, are an acceptable alternative to manually-operated valves or cocks."

Second question is answered then, thank you. The first one refers to a table they include of suitable materials for fuel lines, as I recall copper is listed as suitable for petrol but is not included in the approved materials for diesel. This is reinforced by the link provided by Ashonavega which I had read but not remembered in detail until I read it again just now.

 

[pvb]

The first one refers to a table they include of suitable materials for fuel lines, as I recall copper is listed as suitable for petrol but is not included in the approved materials for diesel.

The only table similar to what you're describing is about materials for fuel tanks, not fuel pipes! See BSS 2.5.1. As I said, you need to read it carefully.

 

[David2452]

Comments on the installation, standpipe on top of tank, OK for BSS if rest of system above tank no fuel tap needed also solenoid dosing pump is a shut off when stopped, copper pipe used, OK for BSS and used on almost every marine install, if any rubber joints are used, normally at pump joints and at heater joint they must be marked with the appropriate BS designation or acceptable proof that they are complient supplied.
Further comment: if you have an emergency cut off switch for the heater it is actually dangerous to use it as it stops the heater going through its cooling cycle and can damage it, simply turning it of in the usual way instantly stops the fuel supply so is also a waste of a switch.

 

[Momac]

Our boat (diesel engine) has copper fuel pipes and it just passed the BSS exam, as it did 4 years ago. The boat is 10 years old just now.
I don't have a diesel heater.
If you put stickers on for the examination you can always remove them afterwards if you find them offensive.
We dont have a bubble tester in the gas locker.
5 year old boat should pass with no issues - providing you have sufficient fire exinguishers, a fire blanket and no glass or plastic drains on the fuel filters.

 

[ctva]

We don't have a fuel cut off for the Eber fuel supply and that was fine at our inspection at the beginning of last season. We did have to put copper pipe in though, a PITA for no reason other than keeping the beauracrats happy.

Buble testers are expensive and problematic. Best thing to do is follow genneral gas fitting practice and fit a testing valve (can't remember the proper name) where the inspector connects their own tester. Much more secure and simpler.

As to the lables, use double sided tape if needed. The local inspector is good with common sense.

...5 year old boat should pass with no issues ...

Don't bet on it! We had to replace some gas pipework on our 5yo Jeanneau as it didn't have the british mark on it. The EU marks and date counted for nothing!!

I loath and detest the stupidity of 90% of the BSS which is just BS.

 

[Momac]

We do have a shut off valve in the cupboard next to the hob - guess that's where the examiner attaches his tester.


Many standards these days are European wide BS EN *** the 'EN' bit being the european reference. If the flexible fuel lines and gas hose are marked but not BS it would be worth looking up the the refernce as it may be a European equivalent.

 

[Quandary]

The only table similar to what you're describing is about materials for fuel tanks, not fuel pipes! See BSS 2.5.1. As I said, you need to read it carefully.

I never read installation instructions either at least until I had fitted whatever appliance and I struggled massively with some construction health and safety rules when I did a course to qualify as an H&S project manager. I am afraid I prefer regulation to be directed at a problem or risk that exists and I can understand rather than broad rule compliance for the sake of it. Having to put a 'diesel' label on the diesel filler of a sea going yacht (but no label reqd. on the water filler) is not necessary when the fuel filler cap is red and the water one is blue, who is going to be putting petrol in my tank, and if they are stupid enough will a label stop them?
I have put a previous boat through the process and found it bureaucratic and irritating dealing with the inspector at the time, for instance the introduction of a permanent tee gadget (in that case inside the boat) to allow a manometer to be fitted once every four years into a single gas line from the regulator to a single appliance doubled the number of joints in the system and did not make my boat safer. This time I have opted for the bubble tester in the gas locker as it serves some more useful purpose. He also insisted on the new flexible gas pipe to the cooker being being replaced with armour coated pipe even though the was no chance of the gimbals allowing the cooker to crush it.
Thanks for the responses, I do not intend to change the copper fuel line but I would still be interested in an answer to what the perceived problem with copper and 'modern' diesel is supposed to be, if any one understands the chemistry.