Broom 38 vs Dutch steel

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miket

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I hope to be in a position to take early retirement in 2011. My wife and I have always intended long term summer cruising in the EU inland rivers and canals, once retired.
To this end we sold our larger newer boat a couple of years ago and bought a 25 year old river boat with which we are very pleased, to see us through to retirement.
During 2007 we chartered a super boat in the Dutch Friesland Lakes area which convinced us that the boat we needed for prolonged cruising was a Dutch steel boat around 40ft (12m) with a single engine and bow and stern thrusters. Being past Broom owners we prefer the aft cabin and command bridge set up with forward guest cabin and loo/ shower facilities.
The alternative was a Broom 38 or 39 with a single engine.
From looking at various Dutch websites I believe I can get a 5 year old, 2nd division (not Linssen, Sturier, etc) boat for £125 to £150k that would suit, albeit probably with only 1 loo and shower area.
I intended purchasing in 2 years' time.
From a chance conversation there is the possibility of a 1999 Broom 38 with 300hp single engine and trolling valve. This is unusual to find outside Ireland. I have not seen it inside but have little doubt that it will be in excellent condition. I do not know the price but would guess between £150k and £200k, and probably nearer the top end than bottom. I am a Broom fan!! We have had a 1992 33 and a 1991 37.
The problems;
1. 2 years before originally intended purchase date.
2. Don't really need 300hp. 135hp Sabre Perkins would do.
3. Airdraft on B38 is 3.2 m all folded down (screen is fixed).
4. For resale, only the Irish market seems to value this single engined config'.
The benefits;
1. We like Brooms.
2. It is 1 owner from new.
It seems that 2.8m is a better airdraft for some of the smaller French canals, but not sure that this is too restrictive.

Over to you guys.
What should I do.
Money is available for either.
 
Sounds like the boat I knew it belonged to a mate has it got a nanni/man derived engine was called sentosa at one time? would favour a low powered twin so that at least you can go to sea with peace of mind, I know where there is a 38 but its got 2 kad 44 volvos, IMHO not a good combination for that type of hull and weight, be better with a pair of sabre perkins M135 etc.
 
Having had a pedro 35 and a broom 345 and done the french inland on both to the med
My Choice would be if your only doing the inland waterways and wont be tempted by the med i would go with the dutch steel
When I went to the med in the broom we had a fair bit of gel coat work to do because of the battering of the locks
Where as the pedro only needed a wash
The thing is you could still cruise around the med in a steel boat if you fancied it there are lots doing just that
Brooms are very good boats imho but are quite a bit more
over to you
Regards
 
If you are going to be crusing the inland waterways and canals, would airdraft not be a major consideration when choosing a boat?
I would find having to drop everything to achieve 3.2m a pain in the a**. Even with 3.2m, would you not be limited to where you could go?
I think I would go for something comfortable as a liveaboard but with a < 3m airdraft.
Now GRP or Steel? that's another question, when I was buying my boat for the Shannon, a friend of a friend who was "knowledgeable about boats" put me off steel by lifting the engine hatch of a steel boat I was looking at and saying"you'll have to get down there every few years with your wire brush and paint brush to keep her from rusting from the inside" He then showed me the anchor locker and said the same. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif The thought of all that work put me off and I bought GRP.
Having said that, steel is very popular on the Shannon, so there must be alot of owners who are not as work-shy as me. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Unless you plan a new career being the Bonnie & Clyde of the inland waterways, 300hp sounds very high!

I think steel will give you a more relaxed retirement.
 
miket, that sounds like a bit of an orphan Broom to me. Single engine is OK for inland waterways work but as you say 300hp is far too much so engine bores are likely to glaze after prolonged operation at slow speed. For sea work, 300hp sounds a bit light and everybody wants a twin set up on this size of boat anyway so resale could be a problem
Last time I looked early Broom 38's were asking about £180k so this one would have to be an awful lot less to be of interest. IMHO, on a Broom (as opposed to a Dutch displacement cruiser) you want twins and in your case, relatively low powered twins and you can run one or other at slow speed and keep them under load and if it were me, I would hang on until the right boat came along in your situation
 
Straying a bit from the question would I be correct in assuming that you can't have everything. That is if, unlike the first post, you wanted to cruise the South coast a bit and then do some waterways, different boats would be required. A steel smaller engined boat seems best for waterways but an Aquanaut or Linssen wouldn't be comfortable up and down the Channel?
 
PeterI, there are boats which are definitely not suitable for this dual mode but there are some that are. To state the blindingly obvious, any kind of flybridge boat would give you air draft problems getting under bridges on many inland waterways and, IMHO, most sterndrive boats are also less suitable for inland waterways because they tend to wander at slow speed which becomes a bit wearing so I think shaftdrive is better for inland waterways.
Which boat is actually best for a particular owner really depends on his/her particular mix of inland waterways and offshore cruising. If the majority of cruising is to be done on inland waterways with only the occasional foray into coastal waters, then a single engined Dutch steel cruiser like the Linssen or Aquanaut with an aft helm position would be ideal. A substantial keel would be good to protect the props in the event of accidental grounding with a reasonably powerful engine to maintain speed in a seaway. A steel hull is also a good idea because it resists the knocks and bumps of inland waterway cruising better than grp. IMHO, these Dutch type steel cruisers are not ideal sea boats. They're limited to displacement speed and will roll a lot but are perfectly capable of making offshore passages in reasonable weather
On the other hand, if the boat is to be mainly used for coastal and offshore cruising with the occasional foray into inland waterways, then I still think an aft helm type boat with low air draft is ideal but a grp boat with more powerful twin engines such that the boat is capable of semi displacement or planing speeds. Broom is the obvious choice but there are other manufacturers making similar designs of boat such as Atlantic, Haines, Sheerline, Aquastar (some models) and Trader (42) amongst others
 
Ho hummmmmm

Good answers and all very logical.
The trolling valve should alleviate the power problem that volvopaul rightly points out, at least to some degree.
Use will be 80% inland EU with possibility only, of tootling around the Med'
Time will not be a problem so no reason to go out in poor weather.
I think the resale is the one element that concerns me most. The Dutch/ Germans like steel for inland. Those who do coastal have twin and/ or more power which leaves this Broom, delightfully described by Deleted User as a "bit of an orphan"!
Perhaps the decision will be made for me by the owner either wanting too much money or the condition being too poor.
 
Small world.

I was on board that one earlier this week. She's had a fortune spent on her by previous owner who's put teak decks on her, electric davits and a new quick release canopy from Irish Spars and Rigging.

Agree with Deleted User though about the 300HP inland which I think might be a rebored Perkins 135 with a turbo added. She's a very nice boat, not sure she'd suit canals and narrow rivers with 300HP. Fine on the Shannon with the inland seas that are Loughs Derg and Ree. Interestingly most of the Brooms sold to North Shannon owners tend to be singe engine because of low summer draft and speed, while south Shannon folk seem to go for twins (ie Lough Derg with it's easy access to the SW coast via the Shannon Estuary). We have a twin 38, love it but don't cruise the north shannon anymore due to the twins that have dinked props at low summer water over the last few seasons - global warming.

Brooms released a special single engine version of the 39KL specifically targetted at the North Shannon. I saw a 38 with modified screens which fold down reducing airdraft to about 2.9m. Dropping the arch and canopy of a 38 is a bit fiddley compared to the push button hydraulic systems on the 39, 42, and 425. If your arch is going to go up and down like a yoyo then the system on the 39 is the only one to go for. The last batch of 38s have the quick release mechanisim on the forward section of the canopy but not the aft (ie the one on the link above).

I also very much like Dutch steel single engine vessels which are polular too on the Shannon (eg Linseen), but the accomodation layouts often seem biased towards day use (eg one head). IMHO, Two heads on a boat is essential even just to have a backup, and especially with guests or family visiting. Like Brooms, in fact even more so the Dutch boats have a wonderful little ship feel about them with their warm cosy traditional interiors. Unlike the cold sterility of white and pastic interiors on some modern designs.
 
When we bought our first Dutch steel boat, I commented to the broker that most UK buyers would probably prefer a bit more room in the forward cabin and a second toilet/shower. 'Why?' he asked, genuinely surprised, ' the forward cabin is only intended for guests'. That just about sums up the philosophy behind the interior design of most Dutch boats /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
No, not the one at Portumna. I spoke to a lady from that dealer at LIBS. At €320k and especially at current €/£ exchange it works out at an eye watering £230k.
This boat is not on the market and indeed the owners may decide not to sell anyway. I regret that I shall certainly not be buying at anywhere close to £230k!!
Due to take a look in the spring when the boat is back in commission.
Thank you all for your observations. All valid.
 
Some comments on here insinuate that Dutch steel is not suitable for coastal/offshore work. If you look closely at some of these boats they are CE marked B which I think is as safe as most plastic twin engined bounce off the wave thirsty lumps! IMHO.

Twin engines wont mean that it is sea worthy, there are many single engined boats out there with very good sea keeping qualities. I took time to look very closely at the new Pedro at the boat show, was I impressed.................. Very!

Go and take a look and see what you fancy.

Tom
 
Don't underestimate the amount of work in maintaining a steel boat. It's a lot more than a GRP boat but well worth it IMHO.
 
I've always been a big fan of Dutch steel vessels. I love the classic lines and traditional decor. I just don't want to have to look after one. Hence we've settled for white outside and lots of wood inside. There are plenty designed with "cruising layouts" (ie shower + 2 heads, galley, dinnette, etc).
 
Why is there loads of work on a modern Dutch steel boat?
With modern epoxy paints and mostly excellent preparation I would not anticipate anything other than "battle scar" repairs which I would also have to repair on GRP.
Enlighten please?
 
Hi Mike, just the gradual build up of scratches, rust staines, touching up, and all that wonderful lovely timber outside that both UV and rain seem to love attacking. I'm a big fan but too lazy to own one as I haven't the time to keep one in peak condition, but I can manage GRP with a polish once a year and regular quick wash. Many of my pals have Dutch steel cruisers that I very much like, but they seem to cycle between looking fab, and in need of constant attention, or at least that's my various pals excuse for spending so much time working on them. I need to switch on and go, no time for "gardening" scale boat projects. I do like them and nearly bought a Pedro Bora 44ft 3 years ago. Also a Linseen fan - quality.
 
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