Broker/Purchase advice needed

C Adventure said:
Hello all,

Not sure here was the correct place for my post, but it is a motorboat so here goes.

I viewed a boat around a month ago, made an offer subject to survey, agreed a price after the broker spoke with the owner, and sent a 10% deposit.
I was then sent a contract which I signed and returned.
I was informed the boat would need the engine checked out before it could be taken to be lifted for the survey. I agreed to pay for the engine work, which I know is unusual but it would have to be reliable to move the boat to its new mooring some 200 miles away.
I spoke with a surveyor who contacted the broker and agreed to view the boat with a view to assessing the engine state. He came back to me saying it was too much for him so the broker said he’d arrange an engineer to service and make any minor repairs.
I wrote an authorisation email allowing the work to go ahead over a week ago. Since then I have called a couple of times and left a message for a progress report but the broker seem reluctant to speak with me. He called me this morning but when I answered he hung up and didn’t pick up my return call. On top of all this the boat is still for sale on his brokerage website and a text message I sent enquiring if he’d received the signed contract has been met with science.
If feels as if despite my efforts he doesn’t want to sell the boat to me.

Can anyone tell me how I stand legally?

I have my own ideas about what’s going on but to preserve everyone’s anonymity, if you’d my thoughts please PM me.

Thanks for reading.
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Can you get down to see the boat and gatecrash the broker? This does not sound like either standard or good practice from the broker, and if it were my deposit I would be knocking the door down.
 
BruceK said:
For peace of mind get your own engineer. Get him as quick as you can and see what he says then close or reject the deal if the repairs reflect the discount.
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before spending any more money, send an email detailing your intenstion to do so, saying you will pass the costs on to them, allowing them 7days to respond or you will assume there non reply to be agreement to proceed. might not be legally enforceable but will give them a wake up call
attach a read request then you'll know the've read it
 
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C Adventure said:
Hello all,

Not sure here was the correct place for my post, but it is a motorboat so here goes.

I viewed a boat around a month ago, made an offer subject to survey, agreed a price after the broker spoke with the owner, and sent a 10% deposit.
I was then sent a contract which I signed and returned.
I was informed the boat would need the engine checked out before it could be taken to be lifted for the survey. I agreed to pay for the engine work, which I know is unusual but it would have to be reliable to move the boat to its new mooring some 200 miles away.
I spoke with a surveyor who contacted the broker and agreed to view the boat with a view to assessing the engine state. He came back to me saying it was too much for him so the broker said he’d arrange an engineer to service and make any minor repairs.
I wrote an authorisation email allowing the work to go ahead over a week ago. Since then I have called a couple of times and left a message for a progress report but the broker seem reluctant to speak with me. He called me this morning but when I answered he hung up and didn’t pick up my return call. On top of all this the boat is still for sale on his brokerage website and a text message I sent enquiring if he’d received the signed contract has been met with science.
If feels as if despite my efforts he doesn’t want to sell the boat to me.

Can anyone tell me how I stand legally?

I have my own ideas about what’s going on but to preserve everyone’s anonymity, if you’d my thoughts please PM me.

Thanks for reading.
Click to expand...
Reading this you have fallen at the first hurdle .
It is up to the owner or his agent to demonstrate the boat is sea worthy and safe to be moved not you .
There is no way any purchaser would spend there own cash on a boat they don’t own , know nothing about it’s condition, engine state etc.
This broker has had your pants right down asking you to pay for repairs , sadly you have left yourself wide open .
Have you actually spoken to the engineer / company he has appointed , do you know what work is required on whos say so that work is actually required ?
The correct way to purchase is , deposit paid , survey by a reputable surveyor and if need be an independent engineer/ company that specialises in the make of engine , satisfactory sea trial , readjust price according to faults found .

PM me the details and if possible I will tell you what I think .
 
Buy one fully working from the engines pov always.

How ever if don’t then be prepared for long range transport and all the hassle that long range , arms length comes with it .
You should know by now from the first ” local “ surveyor what the engine issues are .I know he’s not a proper engineer but he must know basic stuff like all the batts are dead need replacing .Or it’s not been running for [ insert time frame] .Or the fuels bugged up , or it’s injectors are knackered etc etc .Or water in the oil - duff cooler or exhaust ingress etc etc etc .

I do not get the buy it with risks at long range requiring work , unspecified work to cover a 200 m round trip ……yet your reluctance to travel and roll your sleeves up so to speak .

Anyhow second issue is as already mentioned above …broker should rtn calls / e mails etc .

Also the broker must have had a conversation with the seller or sellers relatives if deceased to ascertain why it’s a none runner .As he must have known in the gen enquiry stage folks would ask .
ie needs new oil coolers and full service , or hasn’t been running for X years suspect ceased needs freeing up as the open exhaust ported cylinders have ceased = corrosion after drying up .Something like that .
Obviously the broker in a “ cover your arse “ will say something along the lines “ of course you will need to make your due diligence checks “ -“ but it feels like simply a new oil cooler and fresh oil / service etc “ ….which is factored in the asking price .

I do not get the lack of info ?
 
Portofino said:
Buy one fully working from the engines pov always.

How ever if don’t then be prepared for long range transport and all the hassle that long range , arms length comes with it .
You should know by now from the first ” local “ surveyor what the engine issues are .I know he’s not a proper engineer but he must know basic stuff like all the batts are dead need replacing .Or it’s not been running for [ insert time frame] .Or the fuels bugged up , or it’s injectors are knackered etc etc .Or water in the oil - duff cooler or exhaust ingress etc etc etc .

I do not get the buy it with risks at long range requiring work , unspecified work to cover a 200 m round trip ……yet your reluctance to travel and roll your sleeves up so to speak .

Anyhow second issue is as already mentioned above …broker should rtn calls / e mails etc .

Also the broker must have had a conversation with the seller or sellers relatives if deceased to ascertain why it’s a none runner .As he must have known in the gen enquiry stage folks would ask .
ie needs new oil coolers and full service , or hasn’t been running for X years suspect ceased needs freeing up as the open exhaust ported cylinders have ceased = corrosion after drying up .Something like that .
Obviously the broker in a “ cover your arse “ will say something along the lines “ of course you will need to make your due diligence checks “ -“ but it feels like simply a new oil cooler and fresh oil / service etc “ ….which is factored in the asking price .

I do not get the lack of info ?
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I heard and saw the engine start and run with the first turn if the key. The concern was the header tank was empty and due to not being run for a while to check the cooling inlets. The empty tank could just have been the boat being winterised before being left. This boat is not a pig, the engine is 20 years old and in pristine condition like the rest of the equipment. It was very much loved and cared for until the owners unfortunate demise.
 
C Adventure said:
I heard and saw the engine start and run with the first turn if the key. The concern was the header tank was empty and due to not being run for a while to check the cooling inlets. The empty tank could just have been the boat being winterised before being left. This boat is not a pig, the engine is 20 years old and in pristine condition like the rest of the equipment. It was very much loved and cared for until the owners unfortunate demise.
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Now this sounds a helluva lot better than the info you released in post #1 .

Pity it wasn’t refilled first if that’s all it is .But antifreeze coolant normally copes with U.K. winters as does the raw water seawater
Fresh water systems another matter and draining might be prudent ?

Anyhow another trip beckons sync d with
 
Even if some distance if I had paid out a large deposit I would be making that trip -is the broker going to be trading in a few days time ? Seems very dubious behaviour here for reasons which remain unclear so far. Surely if the broker was acting in interests of the sellers estate he would be looking to get on with completing the sale? Something just seems wrong if you are being asked to pay out for these engine repairs now surely if the broker wants to complete the sale.
 
Any skipper buying an unknown boat that has been laid up for while with an unknown engine(s) and prepared to make 200 mile off shore coastal journey in the winter months is very confident skipper indeed.
 
oldgit said:
Any skipper buying an unknown boat that has been laid up for while with an unknown engine(s) and prepared to make 200 mile off shore coastal journey in the winter months is very confident skipper indeed.
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I don’t expect for it to be going anywhere until the spring and favourable weather. I’m happy to pay the marina fees for a couple of months and surely that’s the point of a survey and engine inspection/service to assure it's seaworthy, no?
 
You’ve asked for advice ref purchase and Broker
You’ve received good on both accounts
The Broker is an arse
You need to go face to face and sort it
Else you will be letting him mess you about and the Season will be over!
you’ve put a considerable deposit down on a boat that may have serious engine problems
You are having difficulties getting any work done
Get in front of the ‘Broker’ pronto
 
C Adventure said:
I don’t expect for it to be going anywhere until the spring and favourable weather. I’m happy to pay the marina fees for a couple of months and surely that’s the point of a survey and engine inspection/service to assure it's seaworthy, no?
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Depending on the marina getting it trucked to where you are right now might be cheaper and avoids weather-related shenanigans and relying on an engine you do not know.
 
a 10 % deposit, no communication and still for sale. on top of that youve committed to paying for engineer. I would expect I might be wrong, that the boat should be off the market. You have agreed to buy the vessle subject to survey and the seller has agreed to sell. am I right or am I wrong.
 
mil1194 said:
That would be the sensible option, but where’s the fun in that?
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Without getting too serious :)
The folks getting a pager message asking them to get over to the mustering station to come and get you, might have different interpretation of the word "fun."

My old Dad, now no longer with us told me a story.
He was asked to accompany a skipper in small wooden motor boat on a trip down to the Scillies during the 1960s .
Relating the tale many years later said ...
Either the chap was a very very experienced skipper indeed and well aware of the dangers of the journey or he simply had no idea of what he is doing..
He declined to go along.
Having purchased boats all over the country, only once have bought one back under its own keel, was regretting that shortly after getting out of the Crouch into the Thames Esturary in a blow.
Boat had a thorough service by vendor at my request . Boats .com.
Even went to the extent of having a small tug aware of my passage plan and hanging around inside Sheerness Harbour, just in case.
A few miles out decided to call the tug to reassure them was on my way and coming into the harbour.
None of the Marine radio gear on the boat would transmit , could hear Garrision Pt calling but could not reply.
On buying my last boat the seller assured me that the impellors etc had been recently changed and that the boat was ready to go to sea.
Strangely decided to cough up and to truck it back from Wales.
As the boat was lowered into the water after its trip back home, it was noticed that no water was coming out of the exhaust.
Impellor had failed .
Spent ages digging out bits of impeller blades from the nooks and crannies of that engine.
Both boats were 35ft -40 flybridge boats with boring old simple 6 cylinder diesel engines on shafts with very little to fail (no flaky electronics or wonky supercharger clutches etc ) go wrong and good idea that the fuel tanks were clean and not contaminated with crud.
 
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Answer is good communication twixt broker / buyer .All of it phone .E Mail pics , txt .
So you have basically asked and seen all that there is to ask and look at before any long trip .
I flew from the U.K. to Naples in the winter of 2014 on that pretext .
In a F5/6 the remnants of one of those super storms we test drove it to Capri and back .
I asked if I could WOT it and yes came back the answer .After 10 mins at WOT and closely examined all the gauges out of politeness I set it back at 1800 rpm and then asked if could point it any Dir to the waves .Yes came the answer .
The only thing I did not do was berth it back in Naples .
It had been in a hanger for 2-1/2 yrs , put in in June used a few times ( new baby from mistress and messy divorce ongoing the reason for sale ?? ) .
When I paid the balance it was the wife’s account which received the dosh .
3 weeks later last week end in Nov I flew back and delivered it back to Cannes 400 miles two days and far from plain sailing sea state wise .
Broker suggested it was hauled and made ready ie fresh AF and gen check .He knew all this before I went to view as I made it clear “ is it fit for a big del trip “ will it make it kinda thing ?
It did ,

The night before we set off broker came round with some goodies inc a tool kit a supermarket set of tools ….bit ominous , fresh flare pack and he had the life raft serviced .
I had agreed before hand , before I flew down should the deal go ahead he would provide a skipper to come along .This was arranged and I funded his rtn trip back .
Nice young but experienced kid iirc his nephew? Hence all the safety kit you are thinking .
Turns out the lad has done a lot of cash job trips all over the Med in all sorts up to 80 ftrs in all weathers .
Handy to have .
We we’re stoped by Guardia Finanza after a refuel in Roma , arrived at close fuel stations on another occasion ( winter hrs ) and he managed to phone them to come and unlock etc . So a IT tongued guy was a godsend in the end .

Also in a bad / heavy crossing from Elba to Corsica in a beam seas water got through the passerelle switch pad and set it extended and blew the motor on the hydraulic pump .We noticed smoke from the hot motor filling the aft cabin at another fuel stop .
The skip “phoned a friend “ his uncle the broker who flew out an engineer with a spare 24 V motor for the hydraulic s .
No winter long del trip is without drama .

EngInes behaved themselves the lad set them at 1650 which achieved 26 knots cruise . Economy and longevity I suspect from his experience with a tad of self preservation thrown in .

When the boat arrived at Cannes I offered to fly him back but he insisted the train as it was cheaper .Nice kid .

That was the only extra the kids rtn trip all negotiated in before I set eyes on the boat .
 
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