Bravado and b/s on SB - dangerous or not?

[webcraft]

I do get fed up with reading the yachting magazines & seeing adverts & tests for every type of superficiality imaginable & there is a whole Industry providing "qualifications.".........

If you are talking abut 'zero to hero' and big schools like BOSS then yes, it is an industry providing industry-recognised professional qualifications.

No-one is forcing ordinary yachtsmen to do courses, and I am sure you would prefer it if the professionals were qualified. If you are irritated by the glossy ads for sailing schools then stop reading that section of the magazine!

- W

 

[capnsensible]

Not 100pc [1] sure, so maybe you and Webbie are right, I doubt it though.



I think this is 'misinformation' [1]:



and this:




http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2885238&postcount=21


I'm willing for my RYA betters to explain where we're all making our mistake though.


[1] 99.9999pc sure though.

Well actually secondary ports are easy and in two parts. One is time, as Webby clearly stated. The other is height, where you seem to be confused. Try reading webbies very helpful post again then you will, when comprehending, be 100 per cent right.

Any seaman, RYA, XYZ, TLA will offer the same. Coz thats how its done.

You can phone the harbourmaster too.

 

[rotrax]

I do get fed up with reading the yachting magazines & seeing adverts & tests for every type of superficiality imaginable & there is a whole Industry providing "qualifications.".........there are also some pretty daft questions asked here & answered that give the impression that there is a substitute to experience & making your own mind up as a result of true experience.
Sometimes you have to counter the tripe that is out there.

Your post tells us that there is a large commercial base providing what customers want-or need-with the RYA at the top setting the syllubus and regulating the Schools. Because it is large and has many independant operators there will be a variation in the courses held by different organisations. The courses should cover the syllabus but in what order, in what depth and level of detail will depend on many circumstances, not least the personality of the instructor. First Mate and I are new sailors, training and sailboat ownership all in the last eleven years. The RYA courses we have attented and recieved certificates for have been just right. CC to DS and in my case CS all followed on seamlessly over a five year period with time on the water in between to practice what we had been taught. We have no illusions about how little we know by comparison to others who have been at it for most of their lives but we get about a bit, plan our passages and cope with what we find in a better way for having had formal RYA approved training. It aint perfect-but what in this life is? I firmly believe it is a good compromise and available at reasonable cost in most areas of the UK. We can now sort the wheat from the chaff and disregard what we know to be duff gen because we have a few thousand miles under ous keel. You are right-there is no substitute for experience but formal and informal training is an essential part of gaining this commodity.

 

[capnsensible]

... but a bigot?

Outspoken, certainly! Wonder how may pens he wore out?

 

[fireball]

I've heard some considered opinions from experienced instructors who I wouldnt trust with my rc laser let alone anything bigger.
That's not to say all instructors are **** - but you should learn to question instructors - because that way you'll learn WHY they tell you to do something. That's far more important than learning by rote as you'll learn when those rules can be broken

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Well actually secondary ports are easy and in two parts. One is time, as Webby clearly stated. The other is height, where you seem to be confused. Try reading webbies very helpful post again then you will, when comprehending, be 100 per cent right.

Any seaman, RYA, XYZ, TLA will offer the same. Coz thats how its done.

You can phone the harbourmaster too.

Well in my opinion, dt4134 and the other 4 were right.

You and Webbie are wrong.

 

[webcraft]

you should learn to question instructors - because that way you'll learn WHY they tell you to do something. That's far more important than learning by rote as you'll learn when those rules can be broken

Yes, fair comment - but you have to be aware that time per candidate per exercise or point of knowledge is extremely limited during a four and a half day course with perhaps five candidates all doing Day Skipper. There is only just enough time to teach, coach and work on individual candidates' weaknesses.

Having said that, a good instructor will usually explain at the time why he is teaching something the way he is. He will teach you techniques and methods that will always work, that you can remember and that make sense. You will then have a sturdy base on which to build a lifetime's experience.

I think what many experienced sailors on here fail to recognise is the extremely low entrance requirement, particularly for the Day Skipper course. We get candidates who have a total of 5 days and 100nm on a yacht, can barely name the parts of a boat and may have little wind awareness and no pilotage or navigation experience. At the end of the week we turn them loose with a certificate that says they can skipper a boat in familiar waters by day. That is quite a step.

Anyone who thinks they can do better, sit your YM if you haven't got it and go for an instructor rating. It certainly teaches you a lot about yourself and your own abilities, and makes you a lot more self-aware and self-critical.

- W

 

[capnsensible]

Well in my opinion, dt4134 and the other 4 were right.

You and Webbie are wrong.

Time is time and height is, er, height. What part are you getting confused with? What, exactly, is webbys lie??

If you dont understand, its quite OK to say so.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Time is time and height is, er, height. What part are you getting confused with? What, exactly, is webbys lie??

If you dont understand, its quite OK to say so.

Obviously, in the real world you can approximate a height from a time and Reeds uses this obvious fact to come up with those times.

You're so obviously wrong that I thought you were misleading people deliberately, I'm starting to wonder if you honestly don't know this simple truth that is self-evident to almost every other sailor in the world. (Including your students I would imagine.)

I'm astounded.

 

[awol]

Time is time and height is, er, height. What part are you getting confused with? What, exactly, is webbys lie??

If you dont understand, its quite OK to say so.

I thought neaps and springs occurred at the same place around the same time of day each cycle and this is reflected in the data.
Just throwing that in in passing, I ain't joining in the Webby's a lying toad/Oh no it's Toad who's lying, game.

 

[capnsensible]

Obviously, in the real world you can approximate a height from a time and Reeds uses this obvious fact to come up with those times.

You're so obviously wrong that I thought you were misleading people deliberately, I'm starting to wonder if you honestly don't know this simple truth that is self-evident to almost every other sailor in the world. (Including your students I would imagine.)

I'm astounded.

Wrong about what???? You still havent told us.

Where is the lie?

I use tides nearly every day, Im more than familiar with how it works, in many parts of the world. If I can help you, I will!

 

[capnsensible]

I am still talking about secondary ports here, just to be clear. I am at a loss as to your confusion????

 

[rib]

im confussed !!!!!! whats wrong where

 

[capnsensible]

im confussed !!!!!! whats wrong where

Dunno

 

[capnsensible]

I must be mis understanding toady. He claims webby is lying about secondary ports. I read the link he posted where I reckon Webby explains it really well. Now I am a liar too.

Mind you, he regularly calls me that when I disagree with him, but Im skinned!

 

[onesea]

If you are talking abut 'zero to hero' and big schools like BOSS then yes, it is an industry providing industry-recognised professional qualifications.

No-one is forcing ordinary yachtsmen to do courses, and I am sure you would prefer it if the professionals were qualified. If you are irritated by the glossy ads for sailing schools then stop reading that section of the magazine!

- W

Zero to hero are an issue that the RYA need to address, as I understand it you can acquire a YM cert without ever sailing in the Winter (or even seen the winter through a sailors eyes. Start sailing in April YM by September). How can that be to be? to be a YM you need to experiences all conditions?

As for ordinary yachts men the problem is that we are all aware the pressures for us to complete these courses is coming down on us. Certainly we have to put up with he effects of the courses when some of them try and come alongside us...

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I thought neaps and springs occurred at the same place around the same time of day each cycle and this is reflected in the data.

So you're number 7 who "don't understand how to calculate the time of high and low water at a secondary port".



Seems to be a lot of us!

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Wrong about what???? You still havent told us.

Don't try and pretend you didn't understand what was in dispute. I made it VERY clear in my first on this and even clearer in post 54, which you have both of which you have seen because you answered them.

 

[capnsensible]

I thought neaps and springs occurred at the same place around the same time of day each cycle and this is reflected in the data.
Just throwing that in in passing, I ain't joining in the Webby's a lying toad/Oh no it's Toad who's lying, game.

The idea with secondary ports is that you can use two simple tables to determine the time and height of high and low water for every tide throughout the year. This is then applied to the Primary port tide curve.

This technique was explained in the link posted. I do not understand why this is a lie.

 

[capnsensible]

Don't try and pretend you didn't understand what was in dispute. I made it VERY clear in my first on this and even clearer in post 54, which you have both of which you have seen because you answered them.

'These are purely time differences' which you posted in big print??

Well, they are!!

Why is webby lying?

I have asked you repeatedly to explain, it doesn't seem you can. I think you owe him an apology.