Bravado and b/s on SB - dangerous or not?

[capnsensible]

May I suggest a wider reading list then?

"He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches."
George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists"

Where does that leave 'he who can teach', then?

George Bernard Shaw, dont make me laugh.

Just another turn of the century prodidgious novelist, critic, pamphleteer, essayist and private correspondant as far as I can see. Didnt even bonk his missus. Weirdo.

 

[Fire99]

what....teach

Get over yourself man.

 

[webcraft]

My point was (again) that the syllabus within training organisations often elongates and you end up with further and further courses for the pupil to take before they are 'fully' qualified.

Some avaricious sailing school owners might promote this 'one step at a time, take every course' approach, but I don't think you will find many freelance instructors suggesting it - nor has the RYA, in fairness, ever suggested that you need to tread every rung on the ladder.

As I said before, DS theory and practical should cover it for most relative beginners. Anything else is, IMO, icing on the cake.

- W

 

[awol]

George Bernard Shaw, dont make me laugh.

Just another turn of the century prodidgious novelist, critic, pamphleteer, essayist and private correspondant as far as I can see. Didnt even bonk his missus. Weirdo.

... but a bigot?

 

[Fire99]

DS theory and practical should cover it for most relative beginners. Anything else is, IMO, icing on the cake.

- W

In an unusual twist, this is something that we agree on ..

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Lazy post, failed to address topic
Toad: -3
- W

Ok let's address the topic, and pick an example of someone trying to mislead a newbie. Here's a good example of a false answer to a direct and simple question from a newbie:

Hmmmm . . . that appears to be five people at least who don't understand how to calculate the time of high and low water at a secondary port.

"These are purely time differences - nothing to do with springs and neaps as people were suggesting".

Here [1] :

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2885238&postcount=21

So to address you point, In this case I don't think the newbie was fooled, in spite of the misinformation coming from an RYA instructor. I can't think of many other cases where newbies would be easily fooled, either.

Is it really "necessary" for me to pay you to tell me self evident lies about tides?

[1] Presumably the RYA charges people for this misinformation.

 

[rib]

fire 99....i point you to your no 35 posting

 

[Fire99]

fire 99....i point you to your no 35 posting

Touché Fair play..

 

[rib]

honourable sir

 

[webcraft]

Is it really "necessary" for me to pay you to tell me self evident lies about tides?

[1] Presumably the RYA charges people for this misinformation.

I think you need to watch what you are accusing people of. Having referred back to the thread in question you are bang out of order. You wanted to introduce an unnecessarily complicated and confusing element to a simple explanation, I didn't. Not quite the same as telling deliberate lies for money.

(Strangely, I don't get paid anything by the RYA or anyone else for posting on Scuttlebutt).

What an unpleasant fellow you are.

Parp parp!

- W

 

[capnsensible]

Ok let's address the topic, and pick an example of someone trying to mislead a newbie. Here's a good example of a false answer to a direct and simple question from a newbie:





Here [1] :

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2885238&postcount=21

So to address you point, In this case I don't think the newbie was fooled, in spite of the misinformation coming from an RYA instructor. I can't think of many other cases where newbies would be easily fooled, either.

Is it really "necessary" for me to pay you to tell me self evident lies about tides?

[1] Presumably the RYA charges people for this misinformation.

Are you sure you understood the question and the answer? It is, after all, correct. What part, please, is a lie?

 

[Capt_Fat_Sam]

RYA instructors generally have a wide breadth and depth of experience, and few of them have floors that need a lot of wiping. Just teaching others to sail tends to make you look increasingly critically at your own practices.

There are undoubtedly many highly skilled and experienced yachtsmen who have never had any formal instruction, but there are just as many who consider themselves to be great sailors but who appear to be encouraging irresponsible or dangerous practices on a public forum while rubbishing training and the considered advice of a lot of experienced sailors.

I just wondered what impression this made on newcomers to our sport who are browsing these pages looking for sensible information. Perhaps there is someone like this lurking who would care to contribute?

- W

Well hello from the novice!!! lol

Although I sailed as a child, I have decided I can be without it any longer. I want my children to have the upbringing on the water that I had. My only option I feel I have to get back into it is to do an RYA course to get a grounding of the basics. I'm sure there are people out there that would be swearing at me if I didn't.

So to all of you "experts" what else can I do if the RYA isn't up to scratch?

 

[AMCD300]

Well hello from the novice!!! lol

So to all of you "experts" what else can I do if the RYA isn't up to scratch?

Well met, Sir

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Are you sure you understood the question and the answer? It is, after all, correct.

Not 100pc [1] sure, so maybe you and Webbie are right, I doubt it though.

What part, please, is a lie?

I think this is 'misinformation' [1]:

"These are purely time differences - nothing to do with springs and neaps as people were suggesting".

and this:

Hmmmm . . . that appears to be five people at least who don't understand how to calculate the time of high and low water at a secondary port.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2885238&postcount=21


I'm willing for my RYA betters to explain where we're all making our mistake though.


[1] 99.9999pc sure though.

 

[Lakesailor]

.
Lifejackets are for wimps, real men don;t sheet the main in before gybing, RYA training is unnecessary rubbish, COLREGS are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools . . .

What sort of message do sentiments like this send to newcomers to our sport who stumble upon these archives, I wonder?

- W

Are you suggesting that we can't discuss the issues and air our own thoughts for fear some "less knowledgeable" newbie comes across the thread and gets the "wrong" idea.

Hang on.
If there is a thread discussing it, whose "wrong idea" are you talking about?
The one that agrees with you or the one that disagrees?

As far as I am aware nothing is set in stone. There is room for a wide range of stances. Yes even ColRegs.
If that wasn't the case how come no thread can ever come to a consensus?

In the absence of statutes regulating my activity I shall continue to do things how I wish in the prevailing conditions without recourse to asking permission on these forums.

 

[Searush]

(snip)
So to all of you "experts" what else can I do if the RYA isn't up to scratch?

Relax, in my view you are unlikely to end up with a poor instructor. Many will have foibles & "bees in their bonnets" but they will get the basics across well enough. That doesn't mean that there are no poor instructors, it's just that they tend to get weeded out over time so there probably aren't many in the grand scheme of things.

However, I have never had a course in my life! err, apart from the compulsory VHF cert run at one of my clubs. But I have met many instructors & I would be confident to be on their boats with any them.

What can you do about it? First of all you would need to recognise his shortcomings & record them, ideally with support from fellow course members. Then feed that back to the training company & ask for another course. You may or may not succeed, but it will help to weed out a poor instructor to help future students.

I used to be a profesional trainer & good feedback from students was a vital part of me getting my next job with any specific company. I'd be surprised if the RYA approved schools didn't run a similar scheme.

 

[Nicholas123]

.
Lifejackets are for wimps, real men don;t sheet the main in before gybing, RYA training is unnecessary rubbish, COLREGS are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools . . .

What sort of message do sentiments like this send to newcomers to our sport who stumble upon these archives, I wonder?

- W

I do get fed up with reading the yachting magazines & seeing adverts & tests for every type of superficiality imaginable & there is a whole Industry providing "qualifications.".........there are also some pretty daft questions asked here & answered that give the impression that there is a substitute to experience & making your own mind up as a result of true experience.
Sometimes you have to counter the tripe that is out there.

 

[Capt_Fat_Sam]

Relax, in my view you are unlikely to end up with a poor instructor. Many will have foibles & "bees in their bonnets" but they will get the basics across well enough. That doesn't mean that there are no poor instructors, it's just that they tend to get weeded out over time so there probably aren't many in the grand scheme of things.

However, I have never had a course in my life! err, apart from the compulsory VHF cert run at one of my clubs. But I have met many instructors & I would be confident to be on their boats with any them.

What can you do about it? First of all you would need to recognise his shortcomings & record them, ideally with support from fellow course members. Then feed that back to the training company & ask for another course. You may or may not succeed, but it will help to weed out a poor instructor to help future students.

I used to be a profesional trainer & good feedback from students was a vital part of me getting my next job with any specific company. I'd be surprised if the RYA approved schools didn't run a similar scheme.

Completely agree with the above! Oh believe me if you knew me I am so relaxed it annoys the Mrs . I'm going into it with my eyes very wide open. As with anything there's good and bad, you should have met my first driving instructor!!!

Once I've got all of the practical sorted in my head and completed my DS I think the learning happens on the go. We all learn by our mistakes, me more than some! But as per the rules of the road I will always abide by the laws of the sea. Whether I agree with them or not, it's in my interest and the people I take out on my boats interests as well

 

[webcraft]

In the absence of statutes regulating my activity I shall continue to do things how I wish in the prevailing conditions without recourse to asking permission on these forums.

And no-one is suggesting otherwise. However, lots of very vehement arguments for doing things in ways that are - for want of a better phrase - generally considered to be against best practice are put forward on here, often in a very dogmatic manner.

Perhaps we just need a health warning.

As an example, the opinion that there are a 'wide range of stances' on the COLREGS is one that should definitely be prefaced with 'in my opinion'. A court or MCA hearing would I suspect tend to disagree with you, favouring their legalistic and to you simplistic interpretation of the rules over your own 'stance'.

- W

 

[Searush]

OK, Nick, I will bear that in mind next time I set out on a course that is likely to end up in an MAIB enquiry.