Bravado and b/s on SB - dangerous or not?

[webcraft]

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Lifejackets are for wimps, real men don;t sheet the main in before gybing, RYA training is unnecessary rubbish, COLREGS are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools . . .

What sort of message do sentiments like this send to newcomers to our sport who stumble upon these archives, I wonder?

- W

 

[Mark-1]

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Lifejackets are for wimps, real men don;t sheet the main in before gybing, RYA training is unnecessary rubbish, COLREGS are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools . . .

What sort of message do sentiments like this send to newcomers to our sport who stumble upon these archives, I wonder?

- W

They're newbies, not idiots.

They'll read both sides of the arguments, do their own research and draw their own conclusions.

 

[chanelyacht]

. COLREGS are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools . . .

- W

In a way, that one's right - Rule 1 is, of course, all to do with saying that blindly following the rules doesn't exempt you from being held to blame in the event of a collision...

But yes, I get your general point...

 

[Fire99]

If you're not an idiot, you'll read the thread and not just jump on the title. That would be my thoughts. Most threads have merit on both sides of discussions.

 

[rib]

but there are idiots in sailing ...loads of them webcraft has a good point.when twats say life jackets are for panstys and others grab the main sheet by hand to gybe........come on...

 

[Fire99]

but there are idiots in sailing ...loads of them webcraft has a good point.when twats say life jackets are for panstys and others grab the main sheet by hand to gybe........come on...

But taking the life jacket thread as an example, they weren't saying life jackets were for pansies. Just that there is a degree of nannying that if you're not wearing your life jacket at ALL times, you're doing something wrong.

I think it (and the main sheet by hand etc etc) is a bit of a backlash to the over nannying that goes on these days.. Plus the Internet is....The Internet. Always yo-yo's from one extreme to the other.

 

[rib]

and if your wearing one on a settled day ?

 

[Fire99]

and if your wearing one on a settled day ?

That is up to you. I sometimes do too.. Either on or off shouldn't attract criticism. (Famous last words)

 

[onesea]

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Lifejackets are for wimps, real men don;t sheet the main in before gybing, RYA training is unnecessary rubbish, COLREGS are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools . . .

What sort of message do sentiments like this send to newcomers to our sport who stumble upon these archives, I wonder?

- W

I guess you are looking for some one to bite?

Lifejacket's are for wimps,

A four year old thread? I do wonder sometimes when I see them being worn, are they REALLY decreasing the chances of an accident? or just making a hot sweaty day a little bit more unbearable?

Not sheeting the main before gybing...
Hmm cannot say I have not guilty of that one from time to time... there are times where there really is not a reason not to...

RYA Training is rubbish well you said it...
Seriously though I think their syllabuses need updating and "seatime" requirements re-evaluating. Until then they have a place as a training method, but do they teach people to the standards? Day(zed) Skipper?

Col Reg's: Well I do think some of the understanding and correct implication of them needs allot to be desired.

As for the sort of sentiments that people coming on here receive, well to be honest yachting is a bit like golf or snooker to me.

Unless you get yourself involved you are not going to change the preconceived ideas most people have. Most people would only need afew hours in a Solent marina to confirm there opinions of yachties for life...


Lets leave the debates run on your not going to get a final answer to any of these point... Until you have:

1) Cruise ship pax & crew wearing life-jackets on open decks.
2) Mainsails and booms removed from boats as they do cause allot of accidents.
3) All crew suitably qualified and trained like the crew on commercial vessel are.
4) Computer controlled boats all doing there own thing.

Now where would the fun be in all that?

 

[Blueboatman]

I think the idea is to encourage people to think ( responsibly or not) for themselves. That is the opposite of nanny statehood.

Surely the OP as an instructor -I believe-wants to teach good technique..but people then go on to do things their own way. This forum prob covers age and experience from zero to 100 . And youngster are smart enough to realise that 99% of everything I write even in reply to such a sincere, non trolling question, is complete incorrect twaddle

 

[Deleted member 36384]

. .... What sort of message do sentiments like this send to newcomers to our sport who stumble upon these archives, I wonder?

The same they get in society in general: self centred opinion, rules where the individual believes they have a right to choose whether to obey or not, the only message worth listening to is ones own.

 

[wotayottie]

and if your wearing one on a settled day ?

I always wear one. If I can find someone who will tell me when I'm going to trip over a rope and fall in, then I'll just wear my lifejacket before hand. Until then I wear it all the time I'm on deck or in the dinghy. Bit like I wear a car seat belt whenever I'm in the caror a crash hat on my motorbike.

You may well be lucky not wearing a lifejacket. Or you may end up stoking the furnaces a bit on the early side.

 

[little_roundtop]

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Lifejackets are for wimps, real men don;t sheet the main in before gybing, RYA training is unnecessary rubbish, COLREGS are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools . . .

What sort of message do sentiments like this send to newcomers to our sport who stumble upon these archives, I wonder?

- W

Any newcomer stumbling across these forums would probably decide to take up a different sport!

 

[Babylon]

and if your wearing one on a settled day ?

I was wearing one on a settled late afternoon just off the entrance to the Hamble. I was braced on the coachroof lashing down the mains'l when a sizable mobo came out of nowhere at high speed and shot past. The beam-on wash had my small yacht rolling wildly (the main was down remember, so its anti-roll properties weren't operative). I was flung to and fro, just managing to hold onto the sheeted-down but still oscillating boom to prevent me being flung into the water. After that incident, my then-wife insisted that I clip on as well when flaking down the main - whatever the weather.

Now that I'm divorced, I'm free to use my own discretion. But when singlehanding or taking out inexperienced crew who can't be relied on to recover me from the water, I still clip on in all potentially risky situations.

The lifejacket bit is easy. I wear one all the time when underway, just as I wear my motorbike helmet when riding. The former is optional for sailors, the latter obligatory for bikers. But, once you're used to the routine, there is no difference at all.

Wimp or BSD?

 

[pteron]

Any newcomer stumbling across these forums would probably decide to take up a different sport!

Would that mean it'd be easier to get a berth in Yarmouth on a glorious summer evening?

 

[fireball]

Life jackets - its an old thread - I still stand by my view that a wearer should decide when to wear one (all the time if they wish).

Sheet the main before gybing - depends on circumstances doesn't it?

Colregs - in the main it is best to follow them - but you have to decide at what point they are in force.

Rya training - its not always the best method - I've done a lot of dinghy racing and got pretty good at techniques that make the boat and course changes quick - but these do not comply with the rya training guides - I had to learn the rya methods when I came to teach others - why dont the rya use the faster melds? Because they are risky and don't always fit all circumstances - the rya methods have to be majority fit - hence are not always the best method - what they do give is a good grounding to take the knowledge further and adapt them for your own vessel and wind strengths.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

+1 @ Fireball, Fire99 and Onesea.

-1 @ Webbie.

 

[Fire99]

Rya training - its not always the best method -

Absolutely.

I'll make a comparison here. The wonderful Microsoft MCSE... (Going back a bit now)

During the IT boom, having an MCSE became a bit of a meal ticket for many and many companies got absorbed with the 'If you have an MCSE, you are an expert' school of thought.
What often was the case was that they had the technical ability to pass the exam but lacked significant real life experience of REAL issues and dare I say, often common sense too.

That doesn't mean doing the MCSE was pointless, just that it wasn't the 'be all and end all' when working out if someone could do the job or not.

RYA training is the same. Get a good instructor / teacher and back it up with lots of practical experience, then it can be a real bonus. (I've certainly learnt enough from them)

However, there is no substitute for experience and there are a cazillion sailors out there who could wipe the floor of many fully qualified RYA instructors, who have never been anywhere near a training centre.

 

[webcraft]

+1 @ Fireball, Fire99 and Onesea.

-1 @ Webbie.

Lazy post, failed to address topic

Toad: -3

- W

 

[webcraft]

However, there is no substitute for experience and there are a cazillion sailors out there who could wipe the floor of many fully qualified RYA instructors, who have never been anywhere near a training centre.

RYA instructors generally have a wide breadth and depth of experience, and few of them have floors that need a lot of wiping. Just teaching others to sail tends to make you look increasingly critically at your own practices.

There are undoubtedly many highly skilled and experienced yachtsmen who have never had any formal instruction, but there are just as many who consider themselves to be great sailors but who appear to be encouraging irresponsible or dangerous practices on a public forum while rubbishing training and the considered advice of a lot of experienced sailors.

I just wondered what impression this made on newcomers to our sport who are browsing these pages looking for sensible information. Perhaps there is someone like this lurking who would care to contribute?

- W