Sgeir
Well-Known Member
There was some muttering recently, probably from Jimi, about the efficacy of certain knots, but can't find the thread. Were any conclusions drawn?
Bowline, or Figure of Eight knot?
- Thread starter Sgeir
- Start date
Kilter
Well-Known Member
I didn't see the thread but sailors usually swear by bowlines and climbers figure of eights...Jimi's probably feeling a bit torn and confused! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Bunny
Well-Known Member
As i remember a bowline is primarily a self rescue knot, with a multitudnd of other uses, and a figure of eight is purely used as a stop knot for pulleys etc. What is the knot intended for?
Aja
Well-Known Member
Found them both really handy for sheets. One at one end the other at the other....
Donald
Donald
Sgeir
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't see the thread but sailors usually swear by bowlines and climbers figure of eights...Jimi's probably feeling a bit torn and confused! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
You've hit the nail right on the head - I'm sure it was Jimi who'd said he was abandoning the bowline as the knot on his climbing harness when making his regular ascents of Glen Rosa's mast to recover the ends of his halyards.
However I think I've found evidence elsewhere that the bowline was his "bestess knot" - take a look at this. I think he may be two-timing his Figure of Eight.
I didn't see the thread but sailors usually swear by bowlines and climbers figure of eights...Jimi's probably feeling a bit torn and confused! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
You've hit the nail right on the head - I'm sure it was Jimi who'd said he was abandoning the bowline as the knot on his climbing harness when making his regular ascents of Glen Rosa's mast to recover the ends of his halyards.
However I think I've found evidence elsewhere that the bowline was his "bestess knot" - take a look at this. I think he may be two-timing his Figure of Eight.
Kilter
Well-Known Member
A figure of eight if followed round produces a loop with a very secure knot, hence liked by climbers.
Kilter
Well-Known Member
What a tart! Pretty dreadful doggrell as well! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Bunny
Well-Known Member
As i remember,The function of a good knot.
1 be easy to tie
2 be easy to untie
3 fulfill its purpose safely without slipping, and
4 does not damage the line
But there again training school was a long time ago !!
1 be easy to tie
2 be easy to untie
3 fulfill its purpose safely without slipping, and
4 does not damage the line
But there again training school was a long time ago !!
AliM
Well-Known Member
My son, who introduced lots of students to climbing, said that they stopped using the bowline because it was obvious when the novice had not tied a figure of eight correctly, whereas the bowline could so easily be tied wrong.
StugeronSteve
Well-Known Member
Not looked at the mechanics of the two knots closely, but I would have thought that a figure of eight was gentler on the rope. I have never even considered a bowline for climbing, be it on rock, mast or anything else.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Sailing with a climber for crew a few years ago, he attached the genoa sheets with figure eights forming a loop. We never could untie them and finished up cutting them off.
alant
Well-Known Member
climbers use a doubled figure of eight, cos they don't slip, when used as a safety line on 'slippery' ropes. Bowline will slip!
jimi
Well-Known Member
Makes sense .. if I'm doing a route I'm going to fall off a lot I use a bowline cos I can undo it afterwards. If multi pitch I tend to use a fig 8 cos the bowline can work loose over time. Climbing context only, never had a bowline work loose on a boat.
whipper_snapper
Well-Known Member
I am probably showing my age here, but generations of climbers climbed - and fell -on bowlines. Its only in the last mumblemumble years that everyone switched to figure of 8's. And that is well after the introduction of modern sheathed ropes. We always used to add a half-hitch or two to prevent the bowline shaking loose, but I don't think they ever actually slipped.
Bergman
Well-Known Member
" Were any conclusions drawn?"
Lots I should think
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All different
Lots I should think
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All different
Orla
Well-Known Member
Horses for coures really.
A bow line will undo nicly after is has been loaded, ideal for sheets ect, will weaken the rope by upto 45% and can work its way loose when not loaded.
A fig of 8 or 9 0r 8 on the bite, are all ideal knots for all sorts of climbing scenarios, all much stronger than the bowline, will not work loose while loaded or unloaded, very difficult to undo after loading.
I make my living from climbing and the only time i ever use a bowline is to lower or hoist equipment, I would never put my life solely on a bowline.
On the otherhand i would never use a fig of 8 to tie sheets unless i have a sharp knife and lots of rope !!!!!
A bow line will undo nicly after is has been loaded, ideal for sheets ect, will weaken the rope by upto 45% and can work its way loose when not loaded.
A fig of 8 or 9 0r 8 on the bite, are all ideal knots for all sorts of climbing scenarios, all much stronger than the bowline, will not work loose while loaded or unloaded, very difficult to undo after loading.
I make my living from climbing and the only time i ever use a bowline is to lower or hoist equipment, I would never put my life solely on a bowline.
On the otherhand i would never use a fig of 8 to tie sheets unless i have a sharp knife and lots of rope !!!!!
Malcb
Well-Known Member
From what I remember from my climbing days, Bowlines tie very well in conventional 'laid' ropes, but in modern 'sheathed' ropes they will eventually loosen and come undone.
A 'figure of eight loop' was the preferred knot as it was easy to tie and remained in the rope.
However, at the same time, climbing was evolving and climbers were wearing harnesses and using karabiners, and so the bowline as a method of tying a rope round ones waist was dying out. Climbers need a knot to attach a rope to a karabiner and the figure of eight worked better, especially in the newer modern ropes.
When climbing with a 'kernmantle' rope which is, similar to/the same as, the man-made fibre ropes we are familiar with, if you use a bowline, you put a half hitch on top of the bowline after tying the knot.
A 'figure of eight loop' was the preferred knot as it was easy to tie and remained in the rope.
However, at the same time, climbing was evolving and climbers were wearing harnesses and using karabiners, and so the bowline as a method of tying a rope round ones waist was dying out. Climbers need a knot to attach a rope to a karabiner and the figure of eight worked better, especially in the newer modern ropes.
When climbing with a 'kernmantle' rope which is, similar to/the same as, the man-made fibre ropes we are familiar with, if you use a bowline, you put a half hitch on top of the bowline after tying the knot.
Sgeir
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I make my living from climbing and the only time i ever use a bowline is to lower or hoist equipment, I would never put my life solely on a bowline.
[/ QUOTE ]Nanny state wimp! Hanging off crags with bowlines was how we got our kicks.
I make my living from climbing and the only time i ever use a bowline is to lower or hoist equipment, I would never put my life solely on a bowline.
[/ QUOTE ]Nanny state wimp! Hanging off crags with bowlines was how we got our kicks.
Orla
Well-Known Member
Its really the H&SE they get involved in everything these days. What was perfecly acceptable in the days when Don was trying to invent the harness is pretty much fround upon nowadays.
If it works for you then stick with it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
If it works for you then stick with it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Orla
Well-Known Member
In some teechings the preferred knot for tying on is a single fishermans or barrel knot, but i dont know where this came from. You just end up with a crushed harness and a very hard knot to undo.
