Bought a new boat but delivered without a CE Plate

[longjohnsilver]

Okay, I may have made a balls up... I was looking at a few boats at the time.. Sorry I got confused..
I have got a Dory awaisting a CE PLATE at the mo... - 22nd Nov...
Thanks

OK so what make is this dory awaiting the CE plate??

How confused are you??!!

 

[longjohnsilver]

When a seller supplies boats without CE docs and plates ( i now know of at least 2 cases), then doesn't respond to those sellers phone calls or Emails, that starts to set off an alarm bell or two.

One of the guys bought a new boat, CE docs and plate promised but not included, the story being that the original buyer had changed his mind and was having one of JRS' cats. There is now another Avocet on Ebay, being offered by a guy who says he has changed his mind and is buying a cat. The boat is stored at JRS and he gives JRS phone number, he also gives his own mobile number, which just happens to be the same as the contact number for all of the "Sold" secondhand boats on the JRS website.

Try to add an "accessory" from the JRS website and you are immediately redirected to a PayPal page that informs you JRS Engineering Ltd (Not JRS Marine) are unable to accept payments. JRS Engineering Ltd is a dormant company, according to companies house.

To me, that all looks very dubious. I might be wrong, perhaps they are all just innocent coincidences.

By the way, i have tried several times to contact JRS on both landline and mobile number. Landline never gets answered and the mobile goes straight to voice mail.

So do you know of 2 cases of JRS selling boats without CE plates? If so make that clear.

Agree that the web site will not allow payment by paypal. Strange but does not prove guilty as charged.

 

[PaulGooch]

So do you know of 2 cases of JRS selling boats without CE plates? If so make that clear.

Agree that the web site will not allow payment by paypal. Strange but does not prove guilty as charged.

The charge is, that the CE plates are not fitted and have not been supplied. This is illegal. The further implication is that there is something odd about the behaviour of the company, as demonstrated by the various oddities.

Which part of

When a seller supplies boats without CE docs and plates ( i now know of at least 2 cases), then doesn't respond to those sellers phone calls or Emails, that starts to set off an alarm bell or two.

isn't clear enough for you ?

 

[longjohnsilver]

The charge is, that the CE plates are not fitted and have not been supplied. This is illegal. The further implication is that there is something odd about the behaviour of the company, as demonstrated by the various oddities.

Which part of



isn't clear enough for you ?

So you're saying that you know of 2 people who have bought boats from JRS without CE plates? If so is one of them Johnn?

I only ask as you do not actually refer to JRS in your post to this effect. And I do not like to make assumptions.

 

[PaulGooch]

So you're saying that you know of 2 people who have bought boats from JRS without CE plates? If so is one of them Johnn?

I only ask as you do not actually refer to JRS in your post to this effect. And I do not like to make assumptions.

Apologies if i wasn't clear enough. Yes, two buyers of JRS Avocet 17's, with missing CE docs and plates, one of which is Johnn. The other guy has said that JRS told him they have three boats out there that they didn't supply plates for.

The brand new one listed on Ebay, apparently by a private seller (yet another one who has changed his mind and wants a JRS cat) doesn't have the CE plates fitted either. Someone has emailed the Ebay seller and he has told them they will have to contact JRS for the plates, after they buy the boat.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Apologies if i wasn't clear enough. Yes, two buyers of JRS Avocet 17's, with missing CE docs and plates, one of which is Johnn. The other guy has said that JRS told him they have three boats out there that they didn't supply plates for.

The brand new one listed on Ebay, apparently by a private seller (yet another one who has changed his mind and wants a JRS cat) doesn't have the CE plates fitted either. Someone has emailed the Ebay seller and he has told them they will have to contact JRS for the plates, after they buy the boat.

Ok that seems clear. Or possibly not. From previous posts Johnn doesn't seem quite sure which of his boats needs a CE plate. And according to his posts in the past 6 weeks he has at least two 19' ish boats,if not more. Do you personally know Johnn and the "other guy"? If so then perhaps you can help Johnn establish exactly which boat(s) he has.

And the "other guy" has been told by JRS of 3 other boats supplied by them without CE plates. I don't understand why they would say that.

And who emailed the ebay seller to be told that they would have to apply to JRS for the CE plates after sale? That is not one of the questions answered on the site. Usually if one question is asked and then answered and put on the page then all questions and answers are treated in the same way.

I had never heard of JRS before this thread and have no connection to them. But this thread seemed to be developing into a virtual lynch squad and that I dislike. It may be the case that JRS have supplied one or more boats without CE plates, I have no proof or knowledge either way. But I cannot understand why some boats are CE plated and others of exactly the same model are not. That seems illogical. Why would they do that? And contrary to what Johnn has said I personally know that JRS can be contacted. It only took me one phone call to speak to them. Let's hope for the sake of balance that JRS take the opportunity to put their side of the story.

 

[PaulGooch]

Ok that seems clear. Or possibly not. From previous posts Johnn doesn't seem quite sure which of his boats needs a CE plate. And according to his posts in the past 6 weeks he has at least two 19' ish boats,if not more. Do you personally know Johnn and the "other guy"? If so then perhaps you can help Johnn establish exactly which boat(s) he has.

I don't know Johnn.

And the "other guy" has been told by JRS of 3 other boats supplied by them without CE plates. I don't understand why they would say that.

The other person said that JRS has promised to send the plate and that "Apparently they have only supplied 3 finished boats (mine being one) without the plate" What the conversation was that lead to them telling him that, i don't know.

And who emailed the ebay seller to be told that they would have to apply to JRS for the CE plates after sale? That is not one of the questions answered on the site. Usually if one question is asked and then answered and put on the page then all questions and answers are treated in the same way.

Someone from another forum emailed the Ebay seller and was told he'd need to contact JRS for the plates. The same person also emailed JRS, asking about a cat and got a speedy reply, yet no reply to my questions about the missing plates.

I had never heard of JRS before this thread and have no connection to them. But this thread seemed to be developing into a virtual lynch squad and that I dislike. It may be the case that JRS have supplied one or more boats without CE plates, I have no proof or knowledge either way. But I cannot understand why some boats are CE plated and others of exactly the same model are not. That seems illogical. Why would they do that? And contrary to what Johnn has said I personally know that JRS can be contacted. It only took me one phone call to speak to them. Let's hope for the sake of balance that JRS take the opportunity to put their side of the story.

I have tried several times to phone JRS, on the landline number and on the mobile, so have others here and on the WSF forum. As far as i can tell, you are the only one who has managed to get through to them.

They have been made aware of this thread and the one on WSF. I have not received a reply to my email and they have not responded to either thread. If a company does not want adverse publicity, they should not treat their customers badly, simples.

Another thing, the boat on Ebay has no windows, not even cut outs in the hull. How can CE certification be issued on an unfinished boat ? Is that legally allowed ?

 

[PaulGooch]

<snip>

And who emailed the ebay seller to be told that they would have to apply to JRS for the CE plates after sale? That is not one of the questions answered on the site. Usually if one question is asked and then answered and put on the page then all questions and answers are treated in the same way

<snip>

As you have doubted and questioned everything i have said, i personally emailed the Ebay seller and received this reply :

Hi There Please contact JRS marine directly on the phone numbers provided in the listing.

Speak to Jon. I did not actually take delivery of the boat I ordered and he will be able to tell you about the CE plate.

Best regards
Rob

I also received a reply to my email to JRS :

Hi there Paul, yes I suppose that would look strange. I can however clear it up. We dont make the plates ourselves. I think the customer in question was told that when they came back into stock they would be forwarded on and that has happened. Neither of the two boats that were delivered without thenm were to be put on the water directly so it was deemed to be less then an acceptable method but one in which the customers at least got delivery of their boats and then the plates affixed later on. On another point though, I must stress that not all boats leave here with a plate in any case, and there are several reasons for this. One is some of the boats are MCA certed and not RCD plated for commercial use. And the other is that the boats go out without a plate because they are either part builds or kits in which case we are not legally allowed to send them out with plates in any case. I am sure you know about this in any case. I cannot comment on the threads as I am not even certain who the people are and as such dont know which boats they are reffering to. So I am at a disadvantage at this point. If someone feels they should have a plate and there is none affixed to their boat, then perhaps a phone call would be a good idea or failing that an email from the owner/user. Regards Bob director

Note that both phone numbers are still not getting answered, for me.

Note also, the above email refers to the illegality of supplying CE plates for unfinished boats. Yet, the Ebay listing is for an unfinished boat, with CE plate to be supplied by JRS.

 

[jfm]

Interestig Paul, thanks. Maybe Johnn's boat, the one he bought 3 months ago i mean, was unfinished. He did say it had no steering i think, and perhaps there were other unfinished items too. Maybe that's why it has no CE plate? I dunno, just proposing an answer...

 

[longjohnsilver]

Paul please don't take it personally, I only tend to question things which do not make sense to me such as Johnn owning 2 or more boats of the same size and asking questions about both/all3 of them in a short space of time. I agree that the situation at JRS looks strange but as I'm sure you'd agree it's good to hear both sides of the story. I am surprised that JRS haven't taken the opportunity to post on here. There do seem to be some discreprancies which need further explanation by them.

 

[PaulGooch]

Interestig Paul, thanks. Maybe Johnn's boat, the one he bought 3 months ago i mean, was unfinished. He did say it had no steering i think, and perhaps there were other unfinished items too. Maybe that's why it has no CE plate? I dunno, just proposing an answer...

Paul please don't take it personally, I only tend to question things which do not make sense to me such as Johnn owning 2 or more boats of the same size and asking questions about both/all3 of them in a short space of time. I agree that the situation at JRS looks strange but as I'm sure you'd agree it's good to hear both sides of the story. I am surprised that JRS haven't taken the opportunity to post on here. There do seem to be some discreprancies which need further explanation by them.

I understand where you're both coming from.

I have replied to the email from JRS, again suggesting they address the issues on the forum. I did point out a few of the issues raised in this thread and also mentioned that a Google search for JRS marine or Avocet has the sister thread to this one at number five in the search results.

I further questioned the Ebay seller (coincidental named Rob, whereas the JRS email was from Bob) about the CE certification, i asked :

I cannot get a reply from either of the numbers you supplied. You claim there is a CE plate in the listing, is there or not ? You will be breaking the law by selling it without, did you know that ?

He replied :

Hi There

The CE plate will be supplied by JRS marine.

I didnt think it was nessecarry to resort to threats. Or are you just being helpful ??.

If you are intrested in the boat buy it.

Contact JRS to arrange viewing.

My position is clear. I have not completed on the boat and as such it still remains the property of JRS Marine.

So it's still less than clear what's really going on here. Remember, this is the second Avocet to be sold as a result of the buyer deciding at the last minute to buy a JRS cat.

Johnn has reported in the WSF thread that he has been given a tracking number by JRS today and his plate is on the way.

 

[PaulGooch]

Interestig Paul, thanks. Maybe Johnn's boat, the one he bought 3 months ago i mean, was unfinished. He did say it had no steering i think, and perhaps there were other unfinished items too. Maybe that's why it has no CE plate? I dunno, just proposing an answer...

Yeah that is odd. If John's was missing it's steering, they shouldn't have sent him a CE plate, which it seems they may have done now. The other guy (from the WSF forum) also says he bought one exactly the same as the Ebay listed one, ie no windows fitted. He's also the person that was told the boat was for sale as a result of the original buyer changing his mind and going for a cat. Unless i'm mistaken, neither of those boats should have CE plates, as they were not completed boats.

 

[PaulGooch]

And to make things more laughable, the Ebay listing has changed again.

In response to questions raised about the phone numbers he has added

(The phone numbers above actually go directly to Jon at JRS Marine. He is answering all the questions for me as he is obviously more knowledgable about these boats than I am.)

Yet the original part of the listing still says :

You can contact me on 07501258488 or talk to them directly on 01797344200.

Make your mind up, who's number is the mobile ?

And i response to queries about the CE plates being supplied by JRS :

This boat remains the property of JRS Marine.

Yet the original part of the listing still says :

This boat owes me £3700 but I am willing to sell it for £3500

Someone please remind me, what do rats smell like ?

 

[PaulGooch]

Just received this email from Director Bob (Ebayer Rob ?) at JRS. I won't be speaking to them again. I gave them the heads up about the thread here and the one at WSF as a courtesy.

Thanks for voicing your concerns. I am a little confused as to why you are so interested I must confess. But I suppose if you want to ask questions you may. However I will point out that our office phone does not have a voice mail function as far as I know ( I will check) My mobile number is actually for my convenience and not supposed to be for people to ring me on so I can address third party problems. If though this is something you wish to talk about, please ring the office during work times and I will try to help you. I dont think I will bother joining the forums just to defend the company, whats the point. I say one thing someone says another. Thats pretty pointless in my opinion. I will say this though. Anyone who has a problem can either come here in person or call the office to sort things out. We have an open door policy on that. I hope this serves as an end to this matter. Bob

His mobile number, is by the way, the one listed on the used boat pages of the JRS website. It is also the one in the Ebay listing, originally stated as being Rob the Ebayers mobile, now claimed in the Ebay listing to be JRS Jon's mobile.

I'm 100% certain that the people at JRS are liars, at the very least. I'll wager good money that the Ebay listing is from the company. What skulduggery they are up to is anyone's guess.

 

[sarabande]

what does it cost a builder to provide a CE plate ?

Does it require registration with any authority ?


If you leave the steering wheel off, or any similar part, you don't need to supply a CE plate, but the person who completes the boat does, or doesn't ?


Corners being cut, and it sounds like evasion not avoidance.

 

[hardguy007]

Hi All, Just joined but alot of you will be be farmiliar with me from the WSF forum and my situation. But just to bring everyone up to date (or to confuse everybody more).

I have an Avocet 17 by JRS Marine which has no CE Plate. I originally was for purchasing the kit form of the craft until Jon had said about one they were just finishing. A guy had ordered it and had upgraded the deck to a nidaplas deck at a £500 extra but then purchased a JRS Catamaran thus Jon informed me of this and we agreed on a price. Various emails (and phone calls) were sent between us asking what and what was not included.The CE plate was specifically mentioned and Jon confirmed that the boat would be plated. The hull was bought as a bare hull. I got windows, steering, engine, controls, stainless accessories all fitted.

This is a photo of the ACTUAL hull i bought:

I then recieved the hull and noticed it was not plated. I contacted JRS marine on the 3, 22 & 27 of October and again on 11 & 21 November requsting this plate. JRS replied on 3 & 13 October and again on 22 November saying that the plate would be posted.
When i emailed them on the 21 November i basically asked them what was going on and informed them that there was alot of negative publicity going on as to which they replied this:

---------------------------

"Your plate has been sent out. All finished boats come with a CE plate.. Of course I cant speak for other peoples boats that have been made previously by other manufacturers. We have made over 50 of this type of craft and all but 3 left here without a plate, yours being one of them. If you have a private email from a forum member who thinks he has one of our boats and its not got a plate we can trace it from our own paperwork and supply a new one. Boats sold as kits NEVER come with a CE plate. And I think this causes some confusion with buyers. Because our craft are often advertised better than others and they all look similar people think we have made all this type of boat and they are entitled to whine how they never got this or never got that.. The fact is we also get calls and emails from people who think they have one of our boats. Fact is 99 out 100 they have an older model built by another firm. we cannot supply CE plates for retrofitting on just any boat because it happens to look similar.. Regards Jonathan
----- Original Message -----
From: James ******
To: support@jrsmarine.com
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 6:18 PM


Jonathan,

What is the crack with this CE plate? Thers alot of bad publicity on the forums about this plate not being on your hulls and i dont want to be posting anything negative. Ive even had private mails specifically asking if i had got one as from what i see very few have them.

Let me know ASAP.

James"

----------------------------------------

I was expecting it today or tomorrow at the latest. I was also expecting an email with a tracking number when "Jonnn" reported thats what he had recieved.

For the record JRS were very helpful whilst the transaction & delivery were taking place & would not fault the hull.

So, that my situation. If anyone requires further clarifaction feel free to ask and i would also agree that JRS take up the oppertunity to respond.

James

 

[jfm]

So if I buy a Mirror dinghy kit and make it myself (can you still do that? I did as a kid with my father) does it have no CE plate? And how come it's then ok to use it and sell it when I'm done with it? No need to answer as it's thread drift, but I am confused about this whole cE plate thing

 

[Tranona]

So if I buy a Mirror dinghy kit and make it myself (can you still do that? I did as a kid with my father) does it have no CE plate? And how come it's then ok to use it and sell it when I'm done with it? No need to answer as it's thread drift, but I am confused about this whole cE plate thing

All explained on the RYA site with a download in the Information section. Happy bedtime reading!

 

[PaulGooch]

So if I buy a Mirror dinghy kit and make it myself (can you still do that? I did as a kid with my father) does it have no CE plate? And how come it's then ok to use it and sell it when I'm done with it? No need to answer as it's thread drift, but I am confused about this whole cE plate thing

Long story short, yes you can build it, but you have to keep it 5 years. Unless i'm mistaken.

 

[aquapower]

Long story short, yes you can build it, but you have to keep it 5 years. Unless i'm mistaken.

yes thats how to get away with ce marking on a diy built boat, just have to keep it for 5 years