Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[Fr J Hackett]

None of my boats has ever smelt of engine inside, or of diesel inside. If the engine is kept clean, and the bilge kept clean, there should be no smell. Similarly, diesel will only smell inside the boat if there's been a spill which hasn't been cleaned up.

I agree, if you maintain your engine, clean up any spills when changing filters or better still work so you don't have any and more importantly keep the bilge clean and if at all possible dry. I bought a boat with a deep sump bilge under the engine that you physically couldn't reach the bottom of and the previous owner had not been too fastidious, that coupled with a rear crankshaft oil leak meant the bilge was filthy and did smell. I sorted the oil leak, cleaned the bilge several times with degreaser, Bilgex and a pressure washer until it was spotless. The boat never afterwards smelt of engine, oil diesel or fumes.It is simply a matter of attention to detail and cleanliness. Starting from scratch with a new installation should mean you won't have a problem if you do the work well.
I won't and can't comment on the hybrid concept save to say it seems a tad over complicated and unnecessary and on a boat KISS should be the guiding principle.

 

[obmij]

In the feb issue of Yachting World there is a review of Silent Yachts which is interesting reading - and I suppose a similar concept to what Team Oddity is trying to achieve, but the driver there is definitely not saving money.

Next month there is a feature on yachts with hybrid propulsion systems, which again should be interesting reading for anyone following this thread.

I think it's worthwhile drawing a parallel with electric cars. No-one is buying a Tesla or even a Zoe to save money, and no-one will, even with the government subsidies on offer.

 

[GregOddity]

Thanks for the reply Greg - but I still don't understand

You need to buy and run an engine to charge your battery bank, and the bigger the battery bank the more you'll need to run it..

So there is no saving in cost, and the noise / smell will depend entirely on the quality of your installation, rather than what you are using the engine for..

Ok I’ll give you an example to see if it makes more sense.
Trip across the pond to Canada. We leave on mains charged battery banks, trickle charge with solar /wind, we get into harbour on recharged battery banks and plug into mains.
Now all along the trip an emergency happens or we need emergency repairs with power tools we start the engine. Coming into harbour facing bad weather and or rough sea state we switch on the engine either for direct thrust or direct current to electrical motor.
The Diesel is but a Back Up. For safety it will be on board but like a fire extinguisher, just because it’s there does not mean that we are going to use it.
As for the smell I agree that a good installation and good practices cleaning the bilges and keeping leaks under control is the way to go and does prevent a smelly boat. But for ME there is always some residual Scent in the air inside the boat. Maybe I’m more sensitive then most.
There are two very important sides to a hybrid usage. Volvo Hybrid buses for instance focus a lot of training on the drivers as they are the vector that directly influences fuel savings the most. Get an untrained driver and the economy achieved by the drive falls off a cliff. They achieve on average above 30% on fuel savings which across a fleet gets translated into massive amounts.
But you have the SHORT and LONG usage of any Hybrid to rationalise. Looking at our sailing one thing is short hops across the Solent and another is any sailing above a week at sea. While obviously impracticable to use solar to recharge the batteries on a trip to Cowes leaving from Gosport, the same cannot be said for a longer voyage at sea.
This is where the philosophy for sailing the vessel must be adapted accordingly. There are a few yachts that made a trip around the world on electric power alone, one that has done that purely on recyclable energy. But it’s all based on the principle that although there the Diesel is not to be used unless strictly necessary.
For some reason people immediately reach the conclusion that were going to charge the batteries with the engine. We can should we need to. But that is not why we are installing a hybrid drive train.

 

[NormanS]

You could just get a lo--------ng trailing cable.

 

[GregOddity]

In the feb issue of Yachting World there is a review of Silent Yachts which is interesting reading - and I suppose a similar concept to what Team Oddity is trying to achieve, but the driver there is definitely not saving money.

Next month there is a feature on yachts with hybrid propulsion systems, which again should be interesting reading for anyone following this thread.

I think it's worthwhile drawing a parallel with electric cars. No-one is buying a Tesla or even a Zoe to save money, and no-one will, even with the government subsidies on offer.

I have not yet read the article but I sure will.
On the matter of buying a Hybrid to save money it’s a more complicated answer then at first glance. A Hybrid is a very specialised tool. A bit like using a wrench as a hammer type of thing. Yes, you can buy a Hybrid to save money if you use it the within the scope it was conceived. You sure cannot hope to install a Hybrid drive train and use it like a normal Diesel drive train as that translates to no savings and added cost.
Having said that most people that by a hybrid car are not saving money. But there are some that are. It’s all to do with how you use that very specialised tool. There is a club of Prius owners in Japan that manage to squeeze mileages completely crazy, but they go to extreme lengths to do that. They even calculate how many hills they have on the route and how much recovery they can get from regenerative breaking etc. A normal user will simply buy the car and drive it the same way he always did achieving zero savings. But it is possible to generate savings when used well. That being the reason most bus fleets are moving to Hybrid Technology.

 

[GregOddity]

You could just get a lo--------ng trailing cable.

hehe :encouragement: there are some boats that use that principle to cross rivers using power suspended above on a cable.

 

[GregOddity]

I agree, if you maintain your engine, clean up any spills when changing filters or better still work so you don't have any and more importantly keep the bilge clean and if at all possible dry. I bought a boat with a deep sump bilge under the engine that you physically couldn't reach the bottom of and the previous owner had not been too fastidious, that coupled with a rear crankshaft oil leak meant the bilge was filthy and did smell. I sorted the oil leak, cleaned the bilge several times with degreaser, Bilgex and a pressure washer until it was spotless. The boat never afterwards smelt of engine, oil diesel or fumes.It is simply a matter of attention to detail and cleanliness. Starting from scratch with a new installation should mean you won't have a problem if you do the work well.
I won't and can't comment on the hybrid concept save to say it seems a tad over complicated and unnecessary and on a boat KISS should be the guiding principle.

I agree completely that poor maintenance is indeed the cause of the Smelly boat syndrome. We take great care in having dry bilges exactly because we don’t fancy “boat” smell and we don’t even have an onboard engine on Selkie.
The Kiss principle applies here, I will struggle to repair a Diesel but I sure can fix the electrics. Easier to diagnose any problem for me. Got all the tools I may need and while I can repair my Fancy LED TV or my computers, I have to send my car away to be repaired. It does have the added installation complexity, but running it is actually easier then a Diesel. No oil filters to change or diesel tanks and filters to clean. Once installed its like your washing machine or fridge. Switch it on and it works.

 

[GregOddity]

None of my boats has ever smelt of engine inside, or of diesel inside. If the engine is kept clean, and the bilge kept clean, there should be no smell. Similarly, diesel will only smell inside the boat if there's been a spill which hasn't been cleaned up.

I'm not implying that you cannot have boats that barely smell of engine, but as with every metal there will be a reaction to the humidity that will always leave a residual scent in the air. Agree that Diesel only smells if improperly handled or any spillage not cleaned properly. Nevertheless, I can always get a tinge of engine no matter how clean and it bothers the hell out of me. Maybe it’s my nose that is too sensitive, I do have to wash and scrub the board to oblivion every time I chop an onion. And I still can smell the dammed thing a week later.

 

[doug748]

I agree completely that poor maintenance is indeed the cause of the Smelly boat syndrome. ...

Part of the cause I would say. Any small boat with the engine in company with the accommodation will smell at times, if only of hot oil. Sooner or later the diesel niff will permeate as well.
My favourite would be an engine installed behind a solid bulkhead and fume extracted. Not easy but that is what you are hinting at, I guess

With a petrol fired outboard engine it all becomes very easy, as the thing often has it's own lair or hangs on the back.

 

[GregOddity]

Part of the cause I would say. Any small boat with the engine in company with the accommodation will smell at times, if only of hot oil. Sooner or later the diesel niff will permeate as well.
My favourite would be an engine installed behind a solid bulkhead and fume extracted. Not easy but that is what you are hinting at, I guess

With a petrol fired outboard engine it all becomes very easy, as the thing often has it's own lair or hangs on the back.

Pretty much so. Our outboard on Selkie lives on the transom or in storage. Never in the boat. When we need the dingy, we add the other outboard to the transom as well. Good lock for short periods and back to storage when not in use. On Oddity they will have a "Lair" on a vented lazaret.

 

[obmij]

Nevertheless, I can always get a tinge of engine no matter how clean and it bothers the hell out of me.

But you are going to have an engine on board anyway.. and this is what I don't understand. You're going to buy an engine and keep it on your boat - so it will cost the same and smell the same whether you're using it to occasionally charge batteries or drive your boat directly.

So if capital cost is the same (greater when you factor in a large battery bank and extra PV) can you clarify where the savings are?

Nothing wrong with a large battery bank - I don't think anyone ever complained about having too many amp hours available - but it's a benefit that you pay for, not one that saves you money.

 

[Just_sayin']

There's no reason why having a diesel engine should result in any fumes or smell inside the boat.

Totally agree. The only time I can smell my twin diesels is if the wind is blowing from aft.

 

[GregOddity]

But you are going to have an engine on board anyway.. and this is what I don't understand. You're going to buy an engine and keep it on your boat - so it will cost the same and smell the same whether you're using it to occasionally charge batteries or drive your boat directly.

So if capital cost is the same (greater when you factor in a large battery bank and extra PV) can you clarify where the savings are?

Nothing wrong with a large battery bank - I don't think anyone ever complained about having too many amp hours available - but it's a benefit that you pay for, not one that saves you money.

Sure, instead of spending 6k on an engine we will marinize a cheap second-hand engine for a calculated price of 2.5 k (we may actually be able to do it cheaper) and use the rest of the 6k on Batteries. Instead of the 6k + batteries which would be 8k ish.
On the smell, until we go electric, I'm just going to have to live with it.

 

[obmij]

I see where you're coming from - you have x to spend so will split that between a cheaper engine and spend more on the battery bank - and it's a perfectly reasonable compromise.

But I am still curious as to your reasoning behind the large battery bank / hybrid drive. It's obviously not about price as you are not saving any money (quite the opposite) and you are not removing a diesel engine from the equation either.

You will have a lot of amp hours to play with though and that is never a bad thing.

 

[GregOddity]

I see where you're coming from - you have x to spend so will split that between a cheaper engine and spend more on the battery bank - and it's a perfectly reasonable compromise.

But I am still curious as to your reasoning behind the large battery bank / hybrid drive. It's obviously not about price as you are not saving any money (quite the opposite) and you are not removing a diesel engine from the equation either.

You will have a lot of amp hours to play with though and that is never a bad thing.

With bits and bobs and panels and mounts for the engine we were always looking at around 6 to 7k plus battery bank. And if you want a motor that works and provides safety to the boat there is no way to circumvent that expense. So, our reasoning is to make the best out of a bad situation which is what we all think of the Diesel engine. By allocating the Lion share of that amount to a proper electric propulsion we can have the best of both worlds. A sailboat with an electric engine and means of generating direct power on demand or thrust should we need.
Since we’re applying ourselves in building the best possible electric drive and battery bank, we can offset that with a cheap diesel engine for generator /trust. Should it fail as they all do, we still have electric and vice versa. Plus, by using a cheap and common engine, should it give problems we just use it as an anchor and install a new £ 400 /£500 engine.
We also have to balance house needs with propulsion and depending on systems installed and where we sail, we can always use the extra capacity built.

 

[pvb]

With bits and bobs and panels and mounts for the engine we were always looking at around 6 to 7k plus battery bank. And if you want a motor that works and provides safety to the boat there is no way to circumvent that expense. So, our reasoning is to make the best out of a bad situation which is what we all think of the Diesel engine. By allocating the Lion share of that amount to a proper electric propulsion we can have the best of both worlds. A sailboat with an electric engine and means of generating direct power on demand or thrust should we need.
Since we’re applying ourselves in building the best possible electric drive and battery bank, we can offset that with a cheap diesel engine for generator /trust. Should it fail as they all do, we still have electric and vice versa. Plus, by using a cheap and common engine, should it give problems we just use it as an anchor and install a new £ 400 /£500 engine.
We also have to balance house needs with propulsion and depending on systems installed and where we sail, we can always use the extra capacity built.

So, if I understand correctly, your diesel engine will be connected to the propshaft, and the electric motor will be connected to it as well (maybe between the diesel engine and the shaft?)

 

[Gymnopedie]

I have read all 1276 items of this thread; and as a Christmas present I received a 7" diameter black vinyl disc with a hole in it's centre.
Is either of these a record?

 

[GregOddity]

So, if I understand correctly, your diesel engine will be connected to the propshaft, and the electric motor will be connected to it as well (maybe between the diesel engine and the shaft?)

They both will be connected to the prop shaft and both can be independently disconnected leaving the prop to spin free while sailing.
When in generator mode Diesels moves Generator not the prop shaft when in propulsion mode diesel moves prop shaft. With engine cycling we can at this stage also engage the electric motor keeping the diesel at optimal RPM
Mostly it will be the diesel as gen, electric on prop shaft for direct drive should we need.
But it allows for various configurations.

ha, not exactly between the diesel and the shaft as that would be a serial drive. Think of it as if both the diesel and the electric motor were placed side by side and you could connect either one at will to the shaft or both at the same time.

 

[GregOddity]

I have read all 1276 items of this thread; and as a Christmas present I received a 7" diameter black vinyl disc with a hole in it's centre.
Is either of these a record?

By Neptune and his pet Mackerel, you're as mad as we are ! Welcome ! you'll feel right at home here.:encouragement:

 

[obmij]

With bits and bobs and panels and.......we can always use the extra capacity built.

OK thanks - at least there is some kind of philosophy behind your venture which I guess will be its own reward. That was my point - there is a small but significant move to electric hybrid systems and non of it driven by cost, so I was wondering what your motive was, thanks again for clarifying.