DangerousPirate
Active member
Which one do you prefer and why? I just had this discussion with a friend, and I think it might be interesting to hear your arguments, too.
Boom Roller System with Boltrope vs Regular Boom with reefing lines and slugs?
- Thread starter DangerousPirate
- Start date
William_H
Well-known member
Boom roller reefing is generally thought top be bad because it is difficult to get a good sail shape when reefed. ie difficult to get out haul tension and difficult to get halyard tension just when wind comes up and you need those for a good sail shape so good windward performance. I am not sure the question of slugs versus bolt rope is related.
I use on my 21fter bolt rope only. But I also have good 2 line reefing to one reef. I can fit a second reef but with difficulty. If I need 2 I should not be out there anyway.
Bolt rope means no concerns when reefing from the cockpit. When raising or shaking out reef the bolt rope goes in fairly easily with a guide device.
So no question to me get rid of roller reefing. Slugs if you want. ol'will
I use on my 21fter bolt rope only. But I also have good 2 line reefing to one reef. I can fit a second reef but with difficulty. If I need 2 I should not be out there anyway.
Bolt rope means no concerns when reefing from the cockpit. When raising or shaking out reef the bolt rope goes in fairly easily with a guide device.
So no question to me get rid of roller reefing. Slugs if you want. ol'will
dancrane
Well-known member
I had a roller-boom with a bolt-rope mainsail on my Achilles 24.
The gent who sold me the boat agreed to deliver her...and he did so, about 25 miles, under genoa alone. That's how much he didn't like the roller boom. I now suspect he had never raised the mainsail while sailing alone.
It certainly was awful. It may have seemed clever back in the 1970s (and the Achilles forum still includes odd members who claim to like it) but adding stackpack, lazyjacks and slab reefing were among my first changes.
I daresay it could be made effective, if the curvature of the belly of the sail could be replicated in the shape of the boom, so each roll of the sail maintains tension in the remaining area.
On balance though, I think it's a bit like cotter pins in bicycle cranks - it was just about adequate until a better way was found.
Ask yourself whether you'd even consider switching to roller-boom reefing if your boat didn't already have it. I really think people only make excuses for it because they don't relish the bother of changing. I changed mine, and it wasn't hard - in fact I wouldn't be deterred from buying another yacht with wretched roller-boom reefing, by the prospect of having to change it again.
P.S., Ol' Will makes a good point about the guide-device for the bolt-rope. I've heard of these, but never experienced one. As I understand it, the device pre-feeds the boltrope into the track so that it doesn't need a hand to ensure it goes up smoothly while hoisting, which can be done remotely. In truth, once I decided I wanted sliders, I never looked back so I didn't have to investigate the boltrope pre-feeder. But you could, if you don't fancy sewing those sliders on. ? That's also well worth doing, though. The way the sail flakes easily (almost automatically) onto the boom now, couldn't be achieved with the stiff boltrope in the luff.
The gent who sold me the boat agreed to deliver her...and he did so, about 25 miles, under genoa alone. That's how much he didn't like the roller boom. I now suspect he had never raised the mainsail while sailing alone.
It certainly was awful. It may have seemed clever back in the 1970s (and the Achilles forum still includes odd members who claim to like it) but adding stackpack, lazyjacks and slab reefing were among my first changes.
I daresay it could be made effective, if the curvature of the belly of the sail could be replicated in the shape of the boom, so each roll of the sail maintains tension in the remaining area.
On balance though, I think it's a bit like cotter pins in bicycle cranks - it was just about adequate until a better way was found.
Ask yourself whether you'd even consider switching to roller-boom reefing if your boat didn't already have it. I really think people only make excuses for it because they don't relish the bother of changing. I changed mine, and it wasn't hard - in fact I wouldn't be deterred from buying another yacht with wretched roller-boom reefing, by the prospect of having to change it again.
P.S., Ol' Will makes a good point about the guide-device for the bolt-rope. I've heard of these, but never experienced one. As I understand it, the device pre-feeds the boltrope into the track so that it doesn't need a hand to ensure it goes up smoothly while hoisting, which can be done remotely. In truth, once I decided I wanted sliders, I never looked back so I didn't have to investigate the boltrope pre-feeder. But you could, if you don't fancy sewing those sliders on. ? That's also well worth doing, though. The way the sail flakes easily (almost automatically) onto the boom now, couldn't be achieved with the stiff boltrope in the luff.
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DangerousPirate
Active member
We came to the discussion because I explained why I wanted to fit my new sailtrack. And the current set up indeed does have boltrope, boom roller system AND a pre-feeder. Personally I don't like it because if you don't have crew, it's difficult to get the sail up and reefing is bit of a pain, and if you have reefing lines I don't think you can roll the boom?
This is an interesting video that I just found while waiting for your replies (why doesn't the thread have 5 pages yet??? It's only 1:15am!), you can see her utilising the boom roller system on her yacht whilst being single handed.
This is an interesting video that I just found while waiting for your replies (why doesn't the thread have 5 pages yet??? It's only 1:15am!), you can see her utilising the boom roller system on her yacht whilst being single handed.
Refueler
Well-known member
Old die-hard boater here.
Roller boom reefing is slated with the poor main sail shape when used. You hear all sorts of remedies such as throw a towel into the leech end of sail to 'lift' end of boom and other daft ideas.
I've sailed with both slab and roller reefing .... and to be honest - I prefer my old boats roller ... Why ? When organised - its a lot tidier. Yes I have to go to mast to use the handle .... yes I have to sort the sail ... yes I lose my kicking strap .... but : >
On all the boats I have had - I have made sure that I have reefing line points in the sail. I like two reef levels with cringle at each end of sail.
So .... unclip kicking strap ...
Roll sail until required luff cringle is at gooseneck.
Make fast cringle to gooseneck (simple line and clip)
At aft leech end of sail using cringle in sail tension and lift boom ... make fast (again a simple line and clip).
The sail is is now rolled tidily on boom ... luff and leech ends are secure with sail taut along boom.
If its expected to stay reefed for reasonable length of time ... the other reef lines along the sail can be made fast round boom also.
I did at one time on present boat have downhaul lines in the cringles ... but they got untidy and I removed them. I now have two short lines with clips stowed ready to use.... keeping sail uncluttered.
No need for towels or badly shaped sail ...
A memory comes to mind of a few years back sailing down the Estonian coast back into Riga Gulf. When we were leaving harbour - I suggested a reef in main and a partly furled genny. Steve looked at the main and I could see he was looking and trying to figure it out ..... mins later we were sailing nicely along all ship-shape and clean ... I think the expression Steve made was something like "Blimey - so simple" ...... What had him wondering - was the boat has 'slugs' in the mast - not boltrope. I just simply opened the 'gate' in the mast groove and dropped out the lower slugs to allow the sail to roll. (I have to admit that I HATE 'SLUGS......)
Do not get me wrong ... I do not suggest that larger boats than mine could work this way ... maybe could ... but I am just illustrating that small - moderate sized boats can be roller reefed with just a little thought and have well shaped main etc.
Roller boom reefing is slated with the poor main sail shape when used. You hear all sorts of remedies such as throw a towel into the leech end of sail to 'lift' end of boom and other daft ideas.
I've sailed with both slab and roller reefing .... and to be honest - I prefer my old boats roller ... Why ? When organised - its a lot tidier. Yes I have to go to mast to use the handle .... yes I have to sort the sail ... yes I lose my kicking strap .... but : >
On all the boats I have had - I have made sure that I have reefing line points in the sail. I like two reef levels with cringle at each end of sail.
So .... unclip kicking strap ...
Roll sail until required luff cringle is at gooseneck.
Make fast cringle to gooseneck (simple line and clip)
At aft leech end of sail using cringle in sail tension and lift boom ... make fast (again a simple line and clip).
The sail is is now rolled tidily on boom ... luff and leech ends are secure with sail taut along boom.
If its expected to stay reefed for reasonable length of time ... the other reef lines along the sail can be made fast round boom also.
I did at one time on present boat have downhaul lines in the cringles ... but they got untidy and I removed them. I now have two short lines with clips stowed ready to use.... keeping sail uncluttered.
No need for towels or badly shaped sail ...
A memory comes to mind of a few years back sailing down the Estonian coast back into Riga Gulf. When we were leaving harbour - I suggested a reef in main and a partly furled genny. Steve looked at the main and I could see he was looking and trying to figure it out ..... mins later we were sailing nicely along all ship-shape and clean ... I think the expression Steve made was something like "Blimey - so simple" ...... What had him wondering - was the boat has 'slugs' in the mast - not boltrope. I just simply opened the 'gate' in the mast groove and dropped out the lower slugs to allow the sail to roll. (I have to admit that I HATE 'SLUGS......)
Do not get me wrong ... I do not suggest that larger boats than mine could work this way ... maybe could ... but I am just illustrating that small - moderate sized boats can be roller reefed with just a little thought and have well shaped main etc.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Ihad an F27 tri with roller boom reefing. No kicker on a tri, and no problem going to the mast, so it worked amazingly well. Slab or roller, little to choose between them as long as it isn’t some half assed bodge, thought up in the pub.
Stemar
Well-known member
My Snapdragon had roller reefing and the criticisms about sail shape are correct. Roll the main down a bit and it started to look like Granny's knickers. A towel helped, but I never could get a decent shape into the reefed main. It was dead easy to reef - I had slides on the mast, so pull the pin out of the bottom of the track, ease the halliard and wind it in. But I did have to go to the mast in bumpy conditions
The kicker was no problem, it had a claw with rollers, so the boom just turned inside it. I think the claw's still lurking in a corner of my workshop if anyone's got a use for one.
Fitting slab reefing with lines to the cockpit was still the best thing I did to improve the handling of the boat - and the Admiral's nerves, as I didn't have to go to the mast when the boat was leaping around.
The kicker was no problem, it had a claw with rollers, so the boom just turned inside it. I think the claw's still lurking in a corner of my workshop if anyone's got a use for one.
Fitting slab reefing with lines to the cockpit was still the best thing I did to improve the handling of the boat - and the Admiral's nerves, as I didn't have to go to the mast when the boat was leaping around.
dunedin
Well-known member
Ironically at the top end of superyachts (and now down to premium 45 footers or so), in-boom mainsail furling / reefing is the preferred system, replacing slab reefing (and preferred over in mast reefing for performance and ability to drop the sail if have problems).
However, generally combined with carbon boom and exotic sail cloths, so the sail-handling system costs more than many of our entire boats.
However, back with the old 1960’s / 1970’s outside the boom reefing ……….. I would definitely convert to slab reefing if possible.
(Things like tapered wooden battens down the outside of the boom helped reduce boom droop, but still only a less-bad solution.)
However, generally combined with carbon boom and exotic sail cloths, so the sail-handling system costs more than many of our entire boats.
However, back with the old 1960’s / 1970’s outside the boom reefing ……….. I would definitely convert to slab reefing if possible.
(Things like tapered wooden battens down the outside of the boom helped reduce boom droop, but still only a less-bad solution.)
dancrane
Well-known member
It occurs to me that whatever one has grown accustomed to, one is prepared to recommend. 
So it's well worth thoroughly trying what you have, several times before changing it.
There are well-reasoned defences for the roller boom, here. It never even struck me to add reef-points and cringles to my Achilles' mainsail in order to use them with the roller-boom, but Refueler's point is sound.
However, as soon as I saw sewing would be required, I was happy to go the whole way with slab-reefs, sliders and lazyjacks, mainly so the sail would drop without assistance into a boom-bag. The benefit of a system that uses gravity and flakes automatically without having to go to the mast, is unanswerable for me.
I looked at Dutchman reefing too, and I'm not sure it wouldn't be better than lazyjacks. Pity it is so little known.
So it's well worth thoroughly trying what you have, several times before changing it.
There are well-reasoned defences for the roller boom, here. It never even struck me to add reef-points and cringles to my Achilles' mainsail in order to use them with the roller-boom, but Refueler's point is sound.
However, as soon as I saw sewing would be required, I was happy to go the whole way with slab-reefs, sliders and lazyjacks, mainly so the sail would drop without assistance into a boom-bag. The benefit of a system that uses gravity and flakes automatically without having to go to the mast, is unanswerable for me.
I looked at Dutchman reefing too, and I'm not sure it wouldn't be better than lazyjacks. Pity it is so little known.
srm
Well-known member
My second yacht (Trintella 29) came with round the boom reefing and slugs in the mast track. The first sail was from Dartmouth home to Shetland. Once the wind freshened beyond a one reef breeze the main became an ugly bag generating lots of heeling force and little drive. The only way to make some progress upwind was under jib.
Once home I ordered a new main with three proper reefs and appropriate boom fittings.
My YM instructor course (on the Clyde in November) was on an old Moody with boom roller reefing. It had a row of reefing eyes to tie in a deepish reef. One night we had to use it for real, not the easiest way to reef as there was no reef outhaul rigged, and then we were stuck with either the tied in reef or no main as the wind increased further. We finished up running downwind to Campbeltown.
Once home I ordered a new main with three proper reefs and appropriate boom fittings.
My YM instructor course (on the Clyde in November) was on an old Moody with boom roller reefing. It had a row of reefing eyes to tie in a deepish reef. One night we had to use it for real, not the easiest way to reef as there was no reef outhaul rigged, and then we were stuck with either the tied in reef or no main as the wind increased further. We finished up running downwind to Campbeltown.
Refueler
Well-known member
As another says - its down to what you are used to using.
Each system will 'develop' user style of action .... such that to another user may noy agree or like.
My slight modification to use roller boom removed the 'baggy sail problem' and saved all the adding lazyjacks / stack bags / etc.
I decided that because I would not normally be out in dangerous weather - at least I would try to avoid it ! - going forward to mast would not be such a problem ....
Most occasions anyway - reef would be made in harbour / quieter waters ... but if I got caught outside - most times I would drop main and run on reduced genny .....
Each system will 'develop' user style of action .... such that to another user may noy agree or like.
My slight modification to use roller boom removed the 'baggy sail problem' and saved all the adding lazyjacks / stack bags / etc.
I decided that because I would not normally be out in dangerous weather - at least I would try to avoid it ! - going forward to mast would not be such a problem ....
Most occasions anyway - reef would be made in harbour / quieter waters ... but if I got caught outside - most times I would drop main and run on reduced genny .....
Daydream believer
Well-known member
My first boat ( 25ft 9 ins)had a tapered roller boom. There were sliders on the wooden mast so one had to release a mast gate when wishing to drop the sail any amount. Normally I would put in about 3 rolls ( standard racing balance with the genoa up to F6 for the class) & there was a leech cringle at that point so I could place a line on it to pull the leech aft if it wanted to creep forward when rolling. The line would clip to the leech, go via a block on the end of the boom ( To a swivelled arm that took the topping lift) & back to the mast where I could pull on it as I rolled the sail. I removed it once the reef was set. I just needed to take up the topping lift to take the weight off the leech, otherwise it would drag the leech forward if one allowed any weight on it.
The mainsheet was attached to a claw ring, positioned with a rod to the boom end. For the kicking strap, I would roll a length of webbing into the sail& attach the now disconnected kicking strap to that. By rolling the webbing in a spiral fashion it would align neatly with the angle of the vang.. One soon worked out the start position & how to stop it coming out by fitting prior to the rolling operation. Contrary to post #2above there is no problen tensioning the luff. Being rolled around the boom the luff can just be tensioned in the normal way. Obviously the boom needs to be locked off but as the norm is for the gearing to have a worm drive, it cannot move once set to required rotation.
I used to race 90% of the time so one had to learn how to be slick with this & willing to reef, un reef & reef again if needed for maxm speed. So smooth operation was necessary.
The mainsheet was attached to a claw ring, positioned with a rod to the boom end. For the kicking strap, I would roll a length of webbing into the sail& attach the now disconnected kicking strap to that. By rolling the webbing in a spiral fashion it would align neatly with the angle of the vang.. One soon worked out the start position & how to stop it coming out by fitting prior to the rolling operation. Contrary to post #2above there is no problen tensioning the luff. Being rolled around the boom the luff can just be tensioned in the normal way. Obviously the boom needs to be locked off but as the norm is for the gearing to have a worm drive, it cannot move once set to required rotation.
I used to race 90% of the time so one had to learn how to be slick with this & willing to reef, un reef & reef again if needed for maxm speed. So smooth operation was necessary.
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neil_s
Well-known member
Boom roller reefing works - but you need to know a few tricks to get the best out of it. First off, sleeve the outboard half of the boom with a piece of plastic drain pipe with a slot cut in it for the luff groove. This takes up more of the leach than the luff, so the boom doesn't sag. When you want to pull a reef down, keep tension on the haliard as you wind the handle. Don't use the topping lift. You will be able to wind in the sail until the head is at the spreaders and you will still have a reasonably flat sail without sag - tension on the haliard is distributed all along the foot of the sail and stops it bunching up. I use a claw hook for the kicking strap - so you can go down wind, too. I'm happy with it - but it's not fashionable and won't suit those who do all their sailing from the cockpit.
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Adrian62
Member
My boat came with in boom roller reefing , when it decided to work it was good , sail shape good fully battened sail , But more often than not the sail would jam either raisin or lowering and in the end after trying everything we could think of and even the local riggers tried it just kept being a pain . So I removed the boom and replace with a standard slab system and have been happy with it since fitting a lot less stressful sailing . Keep it simple .
Ardenfour
Active member
Not quite roller boom reefing though is it? More like stowing the sail on the boom instead of tying the loose sail up with sail ties.
thinwater
Well-known member
That is about how the system on my F-24 works; You roll the sail up on the boom, but the tack have gromets at each reef point and you haul on them, so good sail shape.
The roller is fantastic until the bolt rope wear, then you need to repair the bolt rope.
I don't like roller reefing. Unless the sail is reinforced along the entire leach, there is no load distribution when reefed; the tension is on reinforced leach and can tear (been there, have the tee shirt). You really need reinforced grommets for the reef tack and clew, making it slab reefing without sail ties!
jwilson
Well-known member
I've owned a wooden boat with a boom shaped to take up the belly and slightly lift the leech when you used the bronze roller-reefing gear ratchet handle to reef. It worked very well indeed, and if windy enough to reef the loss of the kicker never seemed to be a problem: you were trying to lose power not extract every bit of power from the sails.
Now I'm equally happy with various other "modern" reefing methods, but if £££££ was no object I'd have modern in-boom reefing like a shot.
Now I'm equally happy with various other "modern" reefing methods, but if £££££ was no object I'd have modern in-boom reefing like a shot.
Refueler
Well-known member
Call it what you like ..... I took the basic roller boom reefing and found a way to tidy the sail shape.
Don't know why you say : "Not quite roller boom reefing though is it?" .... it is Roller Boom Reefing ... I roll the boom to reduce the sail. What I do with the resulting sail is another matter ...
I've seen Lazyjack systems get fouled up ..... seen boom based sail 'bags' fail to stack sail .... seen in-mast furling jam .... seen in boom furling jam .....
EVERY system has its moments .... for me - I just want simple for the rare occasion its needed.
As an old 'die-hard' .... I still like hank on sails ... having been on boats that furling has failed .... I have furling on my boat because it came with the boat when I bought her. But if it had been hank-on genny ... it would still be all these years later hank-on. I still have a number of foresails of various sizes left over from previous .... that would provide far better shape if used than any furled genny.
DoubleEnder
Well-known member
Thread resurrection. How was the boom tapered? Was it fatter at the clew end and thinner at the gooseneck?
Thank you
dunedin
Well-known member
Needs to be fatter at the clew end. But rather than tapering the boom itself, it was common to fit two very long wedge shapes on either side of the boom - full size at the back and tapering to near nothing about mid way along.
Size depended on boat but perhaps an inch square at end in 22 footer. More on bigger boat.