Bolero 26

[wanzap1]

Hi guys I'm new to the forum and I am trying to find out some information regarding the Bolero 26.

I understand it's a quarter tonner and generally used for club racing, I am, however, specifically wondering how they fair as a cruiser (fixed fin keel version, if there even are versions)?

I appreciate their offerings regarding cabin and accommodation - I am wondering about sea going properties i.e. safety, comfort and ease of sailing single handed.(I forget the proper term for the stability curve regarding capsize and self-righting)

For coastal cruising in North Ireland and perhaps Scotland is there much to choose between the Bolero and the likes of the Pandora 22 (fin keel) and achillies 24?

I appreciate full keel boats like the contessa 26, folk boat, folk song, virtue etc are safer options, but they are also much much more expensive.

 

[Seajet]

Welcome to the forums.

If you're looking for a comfortable ride when things get stiff, the Achilles 24 will be far better - and will keep going to windward if required too; but the interior is tiny !

Pandora - quite OK but watch the build quality.

Bolero - more space below, but will require a lot more attention handling wise and reefing earlier; I don't know the boat well enough to comment on build quality but suspect it's rather lightly built.

Don't limit yourself to these designs though, have a look around the many boats available; for instance a GK24 springs to mind judging by the boats already mentioned and would be a better bet.

 

[Quandary]

Be wary of opinions that you are given by people based on what 'they suspect'.
I have never owned a Bolero but knew a guy who did and raced against it often in Belfast Lough and to Scotland, it was hard to beat, we had a Trapper 300 at the time, another quarter tonner, as well as racing it we did a family cruise around the Clyde with it one year, Portpatrick, Lamlash, Tarbert etc. . As far as I recall they are a David Thomas design, like the Sigmas, Hydro, Toledo and many of the Hunters and that alone would give me confidence, he never designed a bad boat. If you are based in N.I. you could perhaps get a real owners opinion from George Taylor at Craig's Engineering (Volvo Penta agents) he owned and raced the one I knew best.
They were designed to race so may not be the steady old dog preferred by many single handers but if you are young and fit?

 

[wanzap1]

Be wary of opinions that you are given by people based on what 'they suspect'.
I have never owned a Bolero but knew a guy who did and raced against it often in Belfast Lough and to Scotland, it was hard to beat, we had a Trapper 300 at the time, another quarter tonner, as well as racing it we did a family cruise around the Clyde with it one year, Portpatrick, Lamlash, Tarbert etc. . As far as I recall they are a David Thomas design, like the Sigmas, Hydro, Toledo and many of the Hunters and that alone would give me confidence, he never designed a bad boat. If you are based in N.I. you could perhaps get a real owners opinion from George Taylor at Craig's Engineering (Volvo Penta agents) he owned and raced the one I knew best.
They were designed to race so may not be the steady old dog preferred by many single handers but if you are young and fit?

Hi, thanks for your reply.

I am indeed based in NI and, in fact, my dad owns a Bolero and races it on Lough Neagh. Due to a problem with access at the boat club (dredging) he is considering getting a shallower draft boat to race and bringing the Bolero to the coast, however, he reckons it won't be comfortable enough and too lively for me (a beginner) to learn to daysail & cruise with. He is a very cautious sort, it was he who has recommended the Achilles 24.

I mentioned the Pandora as there is one for sale here for £1600 - which seems reasonable.

 

[Praxinoscope]

If I remember correctly the Bolero was designed at the time when 1/4 tonner racing was all the rage, and it was quite a successful racer, although not too many were built.
If your looking for something to go single handed coastal cruising I would not really thought it was an ideal choice.
I don’t know what sort of price they go at, as I haven’t really looked around for one, but I would have thought there were a lot of options available to you in similar price ranges.
Although fin keel has slight advantages if your looking at coastal cruising I would suggest bilge keels offer you more oportunities for visiting small harbours etc. The Achilles 24 are a well proven boat but do suffer from limited space down below andreliance on an outboard engine, and you may find that something with an inboard diesel more suited to coastal cruising. Try looking at perhaps the Sadler 25 or even a Westerly Centaur, both of which are good coastal cruisers, the Sadler is faster, but the Centaur offers larger accomodation.
If you want to look at a long keel similar to the Contessa 26 which although is equally as good in performance and quality of build try looking for an Invcta 26, designed by Van de Stadt it is a good sea boat that is easily sailed single handed.

 

[Piddy]

I've sailed a fair bit on a friends Bolero, mainly racing and (with the excellent racing sails we had), we were hard to beat.
Of course it's a boat that needs the crew weight to windward if you are looking for the best performance but I was very surprised how easy it was to sail - more like a big, stable dinghy (bear in mind I normally sail a Moody 376 so most things feel light to me).
The accommodation is limited as are most boats of that style and size and mainly because of that the boat was sold in favour of a GK29.
I don't recall it being built any lighter than similar boats (I'm thinking Quarto, Robber & GK24, all of which I have sailed).
If I had a choice I'd rather learn to sail in a boat that responds to what you tell it rather than a bilge keel plodder (no disrespect to the Achilles, which I know do sail well but are just not as good as the Bolero)

Piddy

 

[Quandary]

The draught problems are nothing new, when we had our first yacht, an Achilles 24 we used to trail it to Lurgan each winter and take it up the Lough to Antrim Boat Club for their excellent winter series, when we switched to the Trapper 300 we did the same. It was too deep at 5', we used to have to put the sails up, sheeted tight in, in the Sixmilewater, put the crew outside the lee shrouds and motor out well heeled to get over the bar, coming back we had to time a wave and surf in, I was daft as a brush then and have gained little common sense since. Great racing though, ten short races each Sunday afternoon either side of Christmas and well poured Guinness in the bar. Taught me everything I know, particularly how to time a start.
Why not try the boat in Lough Neagh before you commit to the ocean?

 

[wanzap1]

Hi Quandary.

Yes, I have sailed it in the lough (limited) and it was grand, Though I am concerned that it will be too lively for the sea. I'm very close to the coast so the sea suits much better. Plus I am more interested in cruising &exploring (I love camping) rather than racing (I'm very uncompetitive)

Thanks for your advice though, it is much appreciated.

 

[Seajet]

wanzap1,

you are right to discard boats which require crew weight to windward for solo sailing, and it's intriguing people should suggest such boats for an inexperienced singlehander.

Quandary has a habit of criticising anything I say, I presume leading to the ' old dogs ' remark; he's either ignorant or choosing to ignore the crew on the side issue and that my Anderson 22 would beat any of the boats listed to windward in a blow - singlehanded - which is when I reckon the chips are down - I didn't mention the design - although there are quite a few in Ireland - as you appear not to need a lift keel.

I would not rave about David Thomas designs for being overbuilt or seakindly compared to others; the Achilles will sail well in heavy weather, comes in fin or triple keel versions ( the bilge keels sink into soft mud so they tend to heel when aground on it ) and like the Anderson has the outboard in a well - on the A22 one stows the engine and fits a blanking plug for sails of more than a few minutes, so most of the drawbacks of an outboard are negated, and one doesn't have the silly weight or maintenence hassle of a diesel - the GK 24 I mentioned does have a diesel but otherwise so apparently suited to your needs I threw it in.

There are lots of pretty good boats out there, ones which don't require gorillas on the side.

 

[Quandary]

Quandary does not criticise everything you say, otherwise I would be here all day, he does however criticize folk when they post information based on no knowledge, quote 'I suspect it is lightly built'
Your knowledge of Anderson 22s may be unsurpassed there are some boats you know a lot less about, that obviously includes those designed by the late David Thomas, it does not stop you giving information on them though!
Out here and where the OP lives a 'dog' is a term for a slow yacht, ( making dogged progress), you flatter yourself that it was aimed at you.

It turns out the OPs father own a Bolero so probably knows more about them than most of us, he sails it on Lough Neagh, very big and very shallow which while not generating powerful ocean waves produces a short fast moving very steep chop that can be up to 2 metres high.

 

[Seajet]

Talking about oneself in the third person is never a good sign.

I know David Thomas designs just fine thanks, including having a good look at the rudder fittings and general arrangements of the Medina in my club and all the others I've been alongside over the years.

A look at the Bolero shape - and its intended use - does not point to a tough seakindly boat, and why you should recommend it to an inexperienced singlehander while saying it needs crew on the rail mystifies me.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I tend to agree with Seajet, the Bolero was good as a racer, but I looked at it years ago when looking for a new boat and really couldn’t see it as a cruiser, especially single handed, which to be fair it wasn’t really designed to be.

 

[Quandary]

Talking about oneself in the third person is never a good sign.

I know David Thomas designs just fine thanks, including having a good look at the rudder fittings and general arrangements of the Medina in my club and all the others I've been alongside over the years.

A look at the Bolero shape - and its intended use - does not point to a tough seakindly boat, and why you should recommend it to an inexperienced singlehander while saying it needs crew on the rail mystifies me.

Chill, try not to let you aggression blind you to the facts every time, and I could also perhaps suggest you try just to stick to what you know when giving advice.
I did not recommend the Bolero but since it is his dad's and he may want to keep it in the family I suggested he try it, I was not far off being a novice when I had the Trapper 300, we used it for 7 seasons and I singlehanded it in Larne Lough, around to Belfast Lough and over to Portpatrick without dying or even experiencing any misery. Cruising with my wife and two toddlers is not that different from single handing either, you can not really expect them to sit on the weather rail but we covered most of the west coast of scotland that way. Difference is that I have always enjoyed a boat that sails well even if I sometimes do have to reef it, I have no problem with him buying a GK 24 but if I owned a Bolero I would not be rushing to switch.

Why don't you tell him about the Anderson 22?

 

[Seajet]

Thanks for your kind comments re my knowledge of the Anderson 22 ( and a fair bit on the A26 and abortive one-off ' A three -oh ' ) - but amazing as it may seem I have owned another cruiser for a few years ( Carter 30 ),had lots of high performance dinghies and have engineering training plus sailing quals; a boat only needs a bit of careful looking at to get a good idea how she will perform - and since starting at 8 in 1970 I have always made it a point to sail every different class of dinghy and cruiser I can, no matter how mundane or trendy racer - highlights so far include crewing a Falmouth Working Boat and the late square rigger TS Royalist.

Besides, I did mention the A22 to the OP; I didn't push the design as it seems he doesn't need a lift keel, though I could have mentioned there's one of two fin keel specials made, going very cheaply indeed in Scotland - she was a famous racer on the Clyde once, but now needs a lot of TLC.

 

[PeteCooper]

I have raced on a few Boleros and can say without doubt that they are a super wee boat, and more than seaworthy enough for anything the OP is likely to do in one. Having said that would I recommend it to him? Never. For non competitive cruising and camping for an uncompetitive owner it is the wrong boat. All Boleros that I have sailed and most of the others that I have seen have running backstays which tend not to be suitable for a novice. For the same money there is a wide range of much more suitable boats - the Centaur has already been mentioned but there are much more suitable quarter tonners about, even - the Trapper 300 mentioned above is much tamer than a Bolero. Sadler 25 springs to mind but there are many others in the same size/price range that would be more suitable.

 

[wanzap1]

Guys thanks for all the replies.

I spoke to my dad further and it ends up that he has a set of sails that have been "cut-down" to de-power the boat and make it much more manageable for both learning and general daysailing.

In the end, I appreciate that it is not the ideal cruiser, but I think it will be adequate for day-sail and generally get out on the water and enjoying myself. I intend to spend next season sailing on the coat with my dad, learning the ropes. i will then take stock and perhaps choose my own cruiser the following season (if I am still inclined).

Thanks for all the useful comments.

 

[Seajet]

Wanzap,

it's not just a matter of cutting down sails - I have often found in my boat ' keep power on ' has got me through some nasty situations I would have avoided if I'd known better - but a lightweight boat with small sails simply won't punch into waves & wind.

Does this one have running backstays ? If so that would put the tin hat on what is already an unsuitable boat, IMO - do you know the hassle involved with those ?!

As long as you are VERY conservative - ' if in the slightest doubt, don't go out ' she may be OK but will never make a decent cruiser anyway so why bother getting a thing you'll have to sell on anyway ?

Following Quandarys' prompt, I will say do you know the Anderson 22 ?

Three have been raced across the Atlantic singlehanded, mine has safely seen me beating through F7 gusting 11 in the Solent ( verified by the square rigger ' TS Royalist's master and crew ) who saw ' the little blue boat ' and gave us a lift back the next day ( the plan was to go back by ferry, we were leaving her in Cowes while a mooring was sorted ).

The design has a good interior with 4 decent sized berths * and outboard in a well, mast in pivoted step and lift keel - she is VERY stiff and stable, I have taken mine across the Channel usually from Needles - Guernsey or similar with novice girlfriend crew I think 18 times, would be more but no crew or inspiration lately.

* TOP TIP ! Whichever boat you look at, LIE DOWN ON THE BUNKS ! I was had this way on the Carter 30, looks a real sailors' fit - out, but the saloon berths proved ridiculously short and narrow - another boat I tried had the occupants of the aft cabin with feet higher than head, and a ' passion killer ' rudder post inbetween !

There is a good A22 for sale in Ireland, near Stangford Lough I think - have chatted with the owner and he prefers working on boats to sailing ( I don't know the geography as haven't been there but can quickly find it ) and there are say at least 6 in Ireland overall.

Others in Norway, Belgium, France, Lake Como, Cyprus and Vietnam ( alright that one was shipped out ) and quite a few in mainland UK.

Or as I mentioned, there is a rare fin keel version for sale, she was very successful cleaning up in cruiser / racer mode on the Clyde but now needs a serious bit of TLC, nothing structural I'm aware of ( and I do have the complete original fit -out plans plus a lot of suggestions for improvements ). - last I knew she was barely into treble figures, in Scotland - I have details - might offer to sail her over with you and your dad as that would be a new one for me...

This is my 40th season with mine, despite trying a lot of other boats - she has been reviewed by PBO and Sailing Today, both of whose testers seemed to like her a lot.

My website is down at the moment following being libelled, but about to go back up again when I learn how to drive Wordpress; but I have all the pics, info and reviews if interested.

Andy

 

[LittleSister]

Guys thanks for all the replies.

I spoke to my dad further and it ends up that he has a set of sails that have been "cut-down" to de-power the boat and make it much more manageable for both learning and general daysailing.

In the end, I appreciate that it is not the ideal cruiser, but I think it will be adequate for day-sail and generally get out on the water and enjoying myself. I intend to spend next season sailing on the coat with my dad, learning the ropes. i will then take stock and perhaps choose my own cruiser the following season (if I am still inclined).

Thanks for all the useful comments.

That sounds an excellent plan.

Whatever boat you start with, you will almost certainly refine/amend your imagined preferences in a year or two (and even if you don't, it only means you already have your perfect boat).

Happy sailing.

 

[PeteCooper]

it's not just a matter of cutting down sails - I have often found in my boat ' keep power on ' has got me through some nasty situations I would have avoided if I'd known better - but a lightweight boat with small sails simply won't punch into waves & wind.

Does this one have running backstays ? If so that would put the tin hat on what is already an unsuitable boat, IMO - do you know the hassle involved with those ?!

Spot on with the above!

... she was very successful cleaning up in cruiser / racer mode on the Clyde but now needs a serious bit of TLC ...

In all fairness that must have been an awful long time ago? Any idea when? Do you happen to know what she was/is called?

 

[MonniotC]

" The Achilles 24 are a well proven boat but do suffer from limited space down below and reliance on an outboard engine, and you may find that something with an inboard diesel more suited to coastal cruising."

A lot of the triple keel Achilles 24s, including mine, have an inboard diesel - in my case the original Petter Mini-six.