DaveS
Well-Known Member
Re: Boatyard charges to replace engine
PM sent.
PM sent.
Boatyard charges to replace engine
- Thread starter noswellplease
- Start date
DaveW
Member
Re: Boatyard charges to replace engine
Have replied
Have replied
Boots
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that, and fully agree with your comments about Chi and Pompey.
Incidentally, it's not for the boat in my profile !
Incidentally, it's not for the boat in my profile !
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Boatyard charges to replace engine
[ QUOTE ]
I think that some people think that they are not going to get a good job unless they pay a lot for it - we know thats not true.
Maybe you should make sure that you can show examples of your work, so that people can see how good you are....!!
A portfolio of photos at least could be a start.
Dave
[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Dave, yes I hear you, and if I intended to do it as a business I would certainly have a portfolio of work, but these are people that came to me, sort of wanting a favour?????
They were also able to see my standard of workmanship on a wooden boat that I am in the process of restoring.
I don't feel at all miffed. lord knows I have got enough to do, just thought it was a bit odd is all. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[ QUOTE ]
I think that some people think that they are not going to get a good job unless they pay a lot for it - we know thats not true.
Maybe you should make sure that you can show examples of your work, so that people can see how good you are....!!
A portfolio of photos at least could be a start.
Dave
[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Dave, yes I hear you, and if I intended to do it as a business I would certainly have a portfolio of work, but these are people that came to me, sort of wanting a favour?????
They were also able to see my standard of workmanship on a wooden boat that I am in the process of restoring.
I don't feel at all miffed. lord knows I have got enough to do, just thought it was a bit odd is all. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
PeterGibbs
Well-Known Member
I am fortunate enough these days to be able to be present when work is being done on my boat. I log the hours and agree them with the engineer on the spot. This seems like a act bordering on mistrust, but my experience over the years is that the marine industry thrives on owners not being present, so presenting bills that are often not completely justified. At £40 an hour every phone call and fag break taken on the job is costing you pounds! I could give you chapter and verse...
In your case, I think you have to sit down with a director of the company that worked on your boat. You need sight of his working time sheets. You need to ask him to go through all the work his engineer undertook; you have to be patient and precise. In preparation you need a counter claim: this will be worked out from what you already know and what was said at the time you commissioned the work, and what the engine/equipment manufacturer suggests is reasonable for an installation such as yours. If you have photos, so much the better. your supplier will take you seriously.
Following this discussion, in which no ground is likely to be given, you will write with your interpretation of what was done and the attendant costs which you have now agreed, and you will enclose a cheque for this sum "to show good will and move things on" You will ask the company to provide a written justification for the difference they claim vs your reasoned calculations of what it should be. If the difference is several hundred pounds it is likely they will suggest a 50:50 cut.
Caution: if the work done leads to some form of guarantee, which an engine installation would involve, if there is any come back during the guarantee period, your supplier may not leap out of bed to help you! It's a judgement call, so keeping the relationship commercial and unheated is important. But just giving in to a sloppy/ inflated/ mistaken invoice would be a shame on you!
Your experience reminds us all that our sport is supported by a cottage industry. I strongly suggest to anyone reading this, that if rigging/mechanical/hull etc work is undertaken costing high 3 or 4 figures, it is made subject to a quotation or written instructions and an understanding of costs/ a limit to which they can go without further reference to you (an estimate has no real contractual value) This puts you in a much stronger position should there be "unaccountable overruns!"
Good luck
PWG
In your case, I think you have to sit down with a director of the company that worked on your boat. You need sight of his working time sheets. You need to ask him to go through all the work his engineer undertook; you have to be patient and precise. In preparation you need a counter claim: this will be worked out from what you already know and what was said at the time you commissioned the work, and what the engine/equipment manufacturer suggests is reasonable for an installation such as yours. If you have photos, so much the better. your supplier will take you seriously.
Following this discussion, in which no ground is likely to be given, you will write with your interpretation of what was done and the attendant costs which you have now agreed, and you will enclose a cheque for this sum "to show good will and move things on" You will ask the company to provide a written justification for the difference they claim vs your reasoned calculations of what it should be. If the difference is several hundred pounds it is likely they will suggest a 50:50 cut.
Caution: if the work done leads to some form of guarantee, which an engine installation would involve, if there is any come back during the guarantee period, your supplier may not leap out of bed to help you! It's a judgement call, so keeping the relationship commercial and unheated is important. But just giving in to a sloppy/ inflated/ mistaken invoice would be a shame on you!
Your experience reminds us all that our sport is supported by a cottage industry. I strongly suggest to anyone reading this, that if rigging/mechanical/hull etc work is undertaken costing high 3 or 4 figures, it is made subject to a quotation or written instructions and an understanding of costs/ a limit to which they can go without further reference to you (an estimate has no real contractual value) This puts you in a much stronger position should there be "unaccountable overruns!"
Good luck
PWG
TheBoatman
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
At these kind of prices doesn't anyone think that there is a good case for learning to do it oneself?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm right in the middle of doing just that - have removed an old Yanmar 2GM and I'm going to replace it with a new 3YM.
Brother and I (both engineers) had the old engine out and on the car park floor in 2 1/2 hours.
The next thing to do is go to the LBS and get a deal on the new engine.
Peter.
At these kind of prices doesn't anyone think that there is a good case for learning to do it oneself?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm right in the middle of doing just that - have removed an old Yanmar 2GM and I'm going to replace it with a new 3YM.
Brother and I (both engineers) had the old engine out and on the car park floor in 2 1/2 hours.
The next thing to do is go to the LBS and get a deal on the new engine.
Peter.
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
There's one golden rule I learned in industry - never ever contract someone to do a job on an hourly rate. Where is the incentive to work quickly? Or is the incentive to spread the job until the next one comes along? How accurate is the time recording? And who is taking the cost risk?
Took me ages to find someone to blast my boat on a fixed price quote but when I did it took him twice as long and three times as much medium as he had estimated. So it was worth the effort.
Took me ages to find someone to blast my boat on a fixed price quote but when I did it took him twice as long and three times as much medium as he had estimated. So it was worth the effort.
jerryat
Well-Known Member
Yep, entirely agree with you and others - it certainly isn't rocket science.
I replaced my Bukh 20 with a new Bukh 24 (a like-for-like exchange) in May this year. Granted there was little alteration work to be done but, having previously disconnected everything from the 'old' engine - total time an hour and a quarter - the engine was removed and the new fitted in just under five hours, including alignment, a real time-consuming pain on these motors as you have to use shims.
And that was working completely alone, though the engines were lifted out/in by crane.
Yes, I have changed an engine (for a different make) on previous boat that involved altering the engine beds, angles etc but, though that took longer, it was a perfectly logical and simple job.
I replaced my Bukh 20 with a new Bukh 24 (a like-for-like exchange) in May this year. Granted there was little alteration work to be done but, having previously disconnected everything from the 'old' engine - total time an hour and a quarter - the engine was removed and the new fitted in just under five hours, including alignment, a real time-consuming pain on these motors as you have to use shims.
And that was working completely alone, though the engines were lifted out/in by crane.
Yes, I have changed an engine (for a different make) on previous boat that involved altering the engine beds, angles etc but, though that took longer, it was a perfectly logical and simple job.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Boatyard charges to replace engine - horror stories ...
The Bill for any work like this is a Title for a Hammer Horror Movie !!
I have had 2 occasions to regret having an engine in a boat ....
My 4-99 broke it's mounts some years ago and had to be cut out of the boat .... It was mounted to beech bearers before fitting to boat, once fitted cabin furniture then fitted. Meaning major surgery to extract ....
The engine was mounted on Petter Mini mounts !! amazing they lasted 25yrs + !!
Of course all mounts / couplings etc. were by this time siezed and needed shaft oxy-acetylene'd to get it all out.
So after new angle bearers fitted, new Vetus mounts, new coupling, new shaft, cabin furniture cut / removed, refitted etc. etc. Electrics re-wired to engine etc. Bill was a massive £3000 ........
But when you see the work on the furniture and bearers alone - the standard was exceptional. Unless you look really close you cannot see the joints etc. Plus the furniture is now able to be dismantled and lifted away easily.
2 yrs later after water got into engine and siezed it .... we had to look at replacement. You can imagine that after above work - I looked for an engine that would drop straight in - not wanting to change above items. So a s/hand 4-107 was found and suited perfectly once the sump pan was changed .....
They had to change gearbox mount and quite a bit of fiddling to get linkages working correctly .... the 107 is reversed to the 99 !!
But all in all another good job but oh the cost .... £1500 ......
So what did I get ? Good work that didn't need any involvement on my part and peace of mind that all was good and strong. To have confidence in the installation. Able to call back eng'r when ever a question / adjustment needed ...
Yes its expensive ..... but tell me what isn't nowadays ? Put a car in for service now .... blimey what happened ??
The Bill for any work like this is a Title for a Hammer Horror Movie !!
I have had 2 occasions to regret having an engine in a boat ....
My 4-99 broke it's mounts some years ago and had to be cut out of the boat .... It was mounted to beech bearers before fitting to boat, once fitted cabin furniture then fitted. Meaning major surgery to extract ....
The engine was mounted on Petter Mini mounts !! amazing they lasted 25yrs + !!
Of course all mounts / couplings etc. were by this time siezed and needed shaft oxy-acetylene'd to get it all out.
So after new angle bearers fitted, new Vetus mounts, new coupling, new shaft, cabin furniture cut / removed, refitted etc. etc. Electrics re-wired to engine etc. Bill was a massive £3000 ........
But when you see the work on the furniture and bearers alone - the standard was exceptional. Unless you look really close you cannot see the joints etc. Plus the furniture is now able to be dismantled and lifted away easily.
2 yrs later after water got into engine and siezed it .... we had to look at replacement. You can imagine that after above work - I looked for an engine that would drop straight in - not wanting to change above items. So a s/hand 4-107 was found and suited perfectly once the sump pan was changed .....
They had to change gearbox mount and quite a bit of fiddling to get linkages working correctly .... the 107 is reversed to the 99 !!
But all in all another good job but oh the cost .... £1500 ......
So what did I get ? Good work that didn't need any involvement on my part and peace of mind that all was good and strong. To have confidence in the installation. Able to call back eng'r when ever a question / adjustment needed ...
Yes its expensive ..... but tell me what isn't nowadays ? Put a car in for service now .... blimey what happened ??
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
It cost
£M518 to replace my 2GM20 Yanmar with a 3YM20.
This included extending the engine bearers, re-siting exhaust, putting in a larger inlet cock, strainer and all associated pipework, shortening the shaft and replacing the cutless bearing. Additionally to fitting the new wiring harness and instrument panel the yard modified the alternator mount to take a Magnetti-Marelli 100 amp marine alternator, instead of the Hitachi 60 amp one.
518 Maltese represents about £910GBP.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable price.
Of course your expectations, which have obviously been exceeded, may have been less than realistic in the first place.
£M518 to replace my 2GM20 Yanmar with a 3YM20.
This included extending the engine bearers, re-siting exhaust, putting in a larger inlet cock, strainer and all associated pipework, shortening the shaft and replacing the cutless bearing. Additionally to fitting the new wiring harness and instrument panel the yard modified the alternator mount to take a Magnetti-Marelli 100 amp marine alternator, instead of the Hitachi 60 amp one.
518 Maltese represents about £910GBP.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable price.
Of course your expectations, which have obviously been exceeded, may have been less than realistic in the first place.
kengill
Well-Known Member
Probably the norm.
When I re-engined we found the stern tube had to be replaced which caused delays - guy had no work to do - and extra cost.
But as very happy with the installation they did and the warranty support - five sea trials - two new props - endless wringing and clipping of props - all at no extra charge
When I re-engined we found the stern tube had to be replaced which caused delays - guy had no work to do - and extra cost.
But as very happy with the installation they did and the warranty support - five sea trials - two new props - endless wringing and clipping of props - all at no extra charge
