Boats with old(ish) engines

[robertt]

I have been put off a couple of otherwise quite nice looking boats by the fact that they have old Volvo engines for which are apparently no spare parts. OK that's a slight exaggeration, some parts are out of production, but that still worries me enough to put me off and make me look the other way. Terrible when common sense pours cold water over your romantic notions.
I am now avoiding MD and ND type Volvo engines.

I was wondering about Bukh though, does anyone know if parts can be relatively easily sourced for a Bukh DV20hp engine? I tried a search and found a servicing kit and a couple of old engines for sale but not a lot otherwise. I really like the boat that this one is attached to and was hoping for some reassurance on this, if anyone has experience or knowledge of this type of engine?

I think I am getting close to the end of my boat search, but it might be back to the drawing board...

Thanks for any info as always

Robert

 

[Rossynant]

Bukh is a beautiful engine, at least I would recommend one; I may be biased as in mechanics army trained, like the indestructible
But then BV20 has very good characteristics, Kubota and such industry kinds can't match.

This machine was designed as boat engine. Still produced, as this is the only real boat diesel left in the world, so now is made mainly for rescue boats. Used worldwide, parts accessible. Has some drawbacks as for parts or service, so may be costly in repairs; non original parts are available to, much cheaper, some are adequate. Originals are required to meet highest standard.
http://www.bukh-bremen.de/files/346/upload/Hersteller/BUKH/Ersatzteilkatalog BUKH DV10 + DV20.pdf

It's now called BV24 - main block the same, just new standard of measurement gives bigger number of horses
http://www.bukh-bremen.de/files/346/upload/Hersteller/BUKH/02 BUKH Katalog DV24-32-36-48 ME.pdf

For old one it's possible to get a "recycled in factory" - you send them one, get in return practically new one (not yours, they just build on old blocks), made as BV24, but for substantially less. I know of someone who bought old seized one specially so to get this discount But check first, it was some years ago.

What to look for: very old one directly cooled may be corroded. There were indirectly cooled (fresh water), and some were converted later (factory supplied parts). Indirect work in higher temperature, as in sailboat this will result with less wear on engine.
Good idea to make conversion on old one - more complicated, but then as may be corroded in some extent on insides, better not to corrode it further
Sea water pump on them is not easy to servie, so people often skipped on this - but this result in serious leaks, may do damage. Repairable, but.

I would not go for old Volvo, those real marine ones; very well built, but too long ago. Parts? There is no Volvo anymore, which is a shame. So no producer, forget the parts (volvos of today are perkins). But for Bukh you may go. In worst situation you can buy a new one and sit it on same mounts, which saves a trouble.
As for prices - cut the middleman. Prices are as any, unless you buy at "marine specialist"

 

[Tranona]

I have been put off a couple of otherwise quite nice looking boats by the fact that they have old Volvo engines for which are apparently no spare parts. OK that's a slight exaggeration, some parts are out of production, but that still worries me enough to put me off and make me look the other way. Terrible when common sense pours cold water over your romantic notions.
I am now avoiding MD and ND type Volvo engines.

I was wondering about Bukh though, does anyone know if parts can be relatively easily sourced for a Bukh DV20hp engine? I tried a search and found a servicing kit and a couple of old engines for sale but not a lot otherwise. I really like the boat that this one is attached to and was hoping for some reassurance on this, if anyone has experience or knowledge of this type of engine?

I think I am getting close to the end of my boat search, but it might be back to the drawing board...

Thanks for any info as always

Robert

Bukh are still in limited production and are well represented by Bukh UK in Poole. Spares are readily available but like most older designs they are not as refined as newer ones. Many are getting to the age where they need serious work or replacement.

 

[KellysEye]

> Volvo engines for which are apparently no spare parts.

That's not correct, Keypart have original spare parts for all old Volve engines. We used them for a MD17C and they are very helpful if you need advice and efficient. Take a look at: http://www.keypart.com/

 

[dylanwinter]

if you are an affluent bloke

if you are an affluent bloke..... or love fettling with engines in tight places then buy one and enjoy it

if.... on the other hand you are frightened of big bills.....mechanics make you nervous..... and you need something really reliable

then an outboard is for you

Dylan

 

[Rossynant]

Yes, no problems with normal servicing and such for Volvo still.
Problems come when serious work is necessary, as rebuilding. Possible still to find parts or something to substitute, but some may be a problem; one thing I heard of (was searching myself) was a transmission, the kind of lowered outshaft, for MD. But must say this was finally repaired by a skilled mechanic.
In such case I would prefer to change if it's an old seawater cooled Volvo, (the real one). Later on they were normal industrial engines, just marinised by Volvo, so parts can be found.

So with boat otherwise nice and engine in good order - nor reason to abandon a good buy. Only keep in mind there may be problems, engine is old and it may happen will not be sensible to repair, but to change.

This is more about deciding the price of boat then choice of engine in her. With engine still good it may be good for years to come. But sooner or later old engine will be for change.

 

[john_morris_uk]

if you are an affluent bloke..... or love fettling with engines in tight places then buy one and enjoy it

if.... on the other hand you are frightened of big bills.....mechanics make you nervous..... and you need something really reliable

then an outboard is for you

Dylan

Or do what we did with two of our previous boats and fit a new engine!

I fitted both of them myself and not only do you then know exactly what is what, but if you do the job with half an ounce of common sense then you get a very good deal and the satisfaction of knowing your engine is much less likely to let you down. (Never say never!)

 

[dylanwinter]

good plan.... but

Or do what we did with two of our previous boats and fit a new engine!

I fitted both of them myself and not only do you then know exactly what is what, but if you do the job with half an ounce of common sense then you get a very good deal and the satisfaction of knowing your engine is much less likely to let you down. (Never say never!)

the slug was £2,000

replacing the engine

guestimate..... £3,500

and slug would still only be worth £2,500

on cheap boats it seldom makes economic sense

D

 

[Champagne Murphy]

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337813
Just in the throes of refurbing mine. Pics etc above, it is now 31 years ld and as far as I know has never had this kind of birthday before. It looked really grim before the blast and repaint but the nastiness was only skin deep. The Bukh guys are really helpful although the spares are on the pricey side

 

[PhillM]

Just budget for the engine replacement and knock it off the price you offer.

 

[dylanwinter]

thereby

Just budget for the engine replacement and knock it off the price you offer.

the economics you suggest might work on bigger more expensive boats

but at the bottom of the market it breaks down

thereby making the deal with the slug being that the bloke has to give me £1500 to take the boat off his hands


Dylan

 

[Bobc]

Depends which MD. There are plenty of spares for the MD22.

 

[Spyro]

This machine was designed as boat engine. Still produced, as this is the only real boat diesel left in the world, :

Yanmar?

 

[Rossynant]

You mean ヤンマー株式会社
Yanmar is a very nice diesel - not everyone knows that Yanmar was the inventor of such engine along with Mr Diesel
But they were not designed for sea. Agricultural originally. Try to start Yanmar by hand, you will find it was not a priority in design

 

[Nicholas123]

You mean ヤンマー株式会社
Yanmar is a very nice diesel - not everyone knows that Yanmar was the inventor of such engine along with Mr Diesel
But they were not designed for sea. Agricultural originally. Try to start Yanmar by hand, you will find it was not a priority in design

I tried start my BUKH DV10 by hand & could'nt get it past the first compression.How do you do it do you rig up a cord to the decompression lever & pull it with your teeth?

 

[Tranona]

You mean ヤンマー株式会社
Yanmar is a very nice diesel - not everyone knows that Yanmar was the inventor of such engine along with Mr Diesel
But they were not designed for sea. Agricultural originally. Try to start Yanmar by hand, you will find it was not a priority in design

This is nonsense. For what it is worth Yanmars are marine engines and for along time seawater cooled. Starting by hand dates from the days when yachts had poor electric systems. This is not the case today. Modern diesels no longer have large heavy flywheel and almost impossible to start by hand. You can in theory start a Bukh by hand but doubt anybody does when electric start is so easy.

 

[Rossynant]

You may have your opinion, and I'm not going to oppose - we may differ in definition naturally, I'm no englishman.

I was taught that a marine diesel is: low rev, long stroke, heavy flywheel, go on anything, hand start, may be submerged, all servicing above, impervious to seawater. Starter/generator on top, crank above - so to be installed in bilges. Was not so long ago, btw.
Yanmar has no hand cranking flywheel, and although this may be possible, is not the primary way of starting.
Yanmar is aluminium - and seawater cooling can be done on it, as on any other, but aluminium is not best for it

Bukh is used for rescue - must be able to operate without electricity - and this makes it marine engine proper. Call me old fashioned, from lost era, primitive believer in world working without phone-call service, living in wilderness - so am I - but this is what was required of "marine engine".

The same way a Beta may be named marine engine - but for me it's marinised industrial.

Btw - how would you call Perkins 4108 seawater cooled unit for RN? (cause they call it marinised)

I tried start my BUKH DV10 by hand & could'nt get it past the first compression.How do you do it do you rig up a cord to the decompression lever & pull it with your teeth?

Then there must be something wrong. Remember, an electric starter for those was "option" to be ordered specially...
Well, was 20 some years ago when I started BUKH 1 cyl by hand, so not that I remember - but it was lever out, put some speed in flywheel, close. Should catch. Watch finger position on crank, some didn't
But started DV20 lately
Two hands may be helpfull, yes, specially on 2 cyl, unless you're bigger then me which means more than 60 kilo.
But then all those people spending lives at computers - what to expect of them
On boats often you have no space or place for yourself so to be able to use proper force. Place yourself well, use both hands. Then when the s****r is spinning fast you can let one hand off to close the lever.
On 2 cylinder only one lever may be closed (some have bar connecting them, this may be disposed of) as engine will run on one lung.

You can also spray some WD40 in inlet if this is cold start. Most problems when the compression is not so perfect, old age of engine.

To be more specific -

As is fashionable now: should provide with TV instructions - so first gogled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr_9CmzEm2M

 

[Poignard]

I tried start my BUKH DV10 by hand & could'nt get it past the first compression.How do you do it do you rig up a cord to the decompression lever & pull it with your teeth?

I start mine by operating the decompressor lever with my left hand and turning the handle with my right. Turn the engine over several times until the momentum builds up and then scream "Start you b@stard!" (or your epithet of choice) at the same time letting go the decompression lever.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

I start mine by operating the decompressor lever with my left hand and turning the handle with my right. Turn the engine over several times until the momentum builds up and then scream "Start you b@stard!" (or your epithet of choice) at the same time letting go the decompression lever.

Brilliant!.... that was my exact technique on my Albin 022.... only worked when you cussed blue language at the thing!

 

[Ariadne]

MD21B you can now get all the bits you want, in the UK you can get them via http://www.ship2ship.co.uk/ and they ship globally. They got me a new (yes, brand new!) water circulating pump a few months ago and shipped it out to Trinidad within 4 working days.

The MD21B is a Peugeot XDP90 base engine, so most bits are still available if you search around. Halfords or any motor part place for gaskets, the car, taxi gaskets will fit your engine, you can get a full set for under £100 as opposed to a VP head gasket at £250!

I admit it can be hard work with old engines, but if the boat is right and you can deal with the engine yourself, then go for it.

Although if somebody offered me a shinny new 80hp Yanmar or one of these http://www.steyr-motors.com/marine-diesel-engines/2-4-and-6-cylinder/integrated-flywheel-generator/ I'd take it.