Boats with old(ish) engines

[snooks]

But then BV20 has very good characteristics, Kubota and such industry kinds can't match.

My old Bukh couldn't match my new (Kubota) Beta in a number of ways. Time taken to get a burst of power to the prop, Beta takes nowhere near as long. The Bukh made much more noise, and would take longer to start from cold. The Bukh used more fuel as well. None of those I would describe as "good characteristics" though

Changed from Bukh to Beta, no looking back or regrets. Yes the Bukh, once started, would run all day and all night, but the Beta has improved our yacht no end.

 

[Rossynant]

Which one of beta you chose, btw? Just curious.
Yes, other things, aside, Kubota is nice one, and light - + less vibrations.

 

[snooks]

Which one of beta you chose, btw? Just curious.
Yes, other things, aside, Kubota is nice one, and light - + less vibrations.

The 70kg lighter Beta 30

 

[Slowtack]

My trusty VP 2003 is 29 years old this year. Place your bets!

 

[Tranona]

You may have your opinion, and I'm not going to oppose - we may differ in definition naturally, I'm no englishman.

I was taught that a marine diesel is: low rev, long stroke, heavy flywheel, go on anything, hand start, may be submerged, all servicing above, impervious to seawater. Starter/generator on top, crank above - so to be installed in bilges. Was not so long ago, btw.
Yanmar has no hand cranking flywheel, and although this may be possible, is not the primary way of starting.
Yanmar is aluminium - and seawater cooling can be done on it, as on any other, but aluminium is not best for it

Bukh is used for rescue - must be able to operate without electricity - and this makes it marine engine proper. Call me old fashioned, from lost era, primitive believer in world working without phone-call service, living in wilderness - so am I - but this is what was required of "marine engine".

The same way a Beta may be named marine engine - but for me it's marinised industrial.

Btw - how would you call Perkins 4108 seawater cooled unit for RN? (cause they call it marinised)


Then there must be something wrong. Remember, an electric starter for those was "option" to be ordered specially...
Well, was 20 some years ago when I started BUKH 1 cyl by hand, so not that I remember - but it was lever out, put some speed in flywheel, close. Should catch. Watch finger position on crank, some didn't
But started DV20 lately
Two hands may be helpfull, yes, specially on 2 cyl, unless you're bigger then me which means more than 60 kilo.
But then all those people spending lives at computers - what to expect of them
On boats often you have no space or place for yourself so to be able to use proper force. Place yourself well, use both hands. Then when the s****r is spinning fast you can let one hand off to close the lever.
On 2 cylinder only one lever may be closed (some have bar connecting them, this may be disposed of) as engine will run on one lung.

You can also spray some WD40 in inlet if this is cold start. Most problems when the compression is not so perfect, old age of engine.

To be more specific -

As is fashionable now
: should provide with TV instructions - so first gogled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr_9CmzEm2M

Difficult to know where to start with the misconceptions and inaccuracies here. Some of your observationsn about what constitutes a marine engine might have been valid 40 years ago but are not valid now. Nobody would dream of having a starting handle for a car now so why do they need it in a boat?

A Yanmar is cast iron and stands up well to seawater use. Some non structural parts are aluminum but in fact the Bukh has more aluminum than a Yanmar. Just ask the people who have had fractured mountings and bell housings what they think of the extensive weight saving use of aluminum.

Virtually all marine engines are derived from industrial or automotive engines. That is the way manufacturers can offer high spec engines for what is a small market.

Those of us who have owned the old style marine engines would never go back to them through choice.f

 

[Sybarite]

I tried start my BUKH DV10 by hand & could'nt get it past the first compression.How do you do it do you rig up a cord to the decompression lever & pull it with your teeth?

Wind the mainsheet around the flywheel and jibe!

 

[Sybarite]

Bukh is a beautiful engine, at least I would recommend one; I may be biased as in mechanics army trained, like the indestructible
But then BV20 has very good characteristics, Kubota and such industry kinds can't match.

:

This was the conclusion on a recent article on replacing engines in a French magazine. The Bukh was the only engine designed originally for marine use and was considered in the article to be very top quality.

A lot of the others eg Nanni and Beta (from memory) are marine adaptations on a Mitsubishi base.

 

[Vega1447]

Difficult to know where to start with the misconceptions and inaccuracies here. Some of your observationsn about what constitutes a marine engine might have been valid 40 years ago but are not valid now. Nobody would dream of having a starting handle for a car now so why do they need it in a boat?

If you can't start your car on a cold morning you can phone for a taxi.

If the boat battery is low on a cold morning I would like to have the option of hand cranking.

Not to mention heading back into harbour with a following wind (and a flat battery)..

Belt and braces...

 

[snooks]

For around £150 you can get a VSR, no chance of getting a flat engine battery, even if your house batteries turn to dust.

I've been sailing on loads of different boats and in the last 25 years and never once had to hand start an engine. Tried it once for the experience, never needed that experience before or since.

Yes I've suffered engine failures, but always managed to sail in far enough to get a tow from a friendly harbour master or yacht. One time when it happened the head gasket had gone on my Bukh, so no amount of hand starting would have helped. We would have anchored, but we were in 80 metres of water at the time, just a couple of cables from the harbour breakwater.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Just budget for the engine replacement and knock it off the price you offer.

That's what I did and got a jolly good boat. Engine so far so good. But if it gives serious trouble I'll re-engine without feeling despair because I've obtained the budget for it in the initial reduction in price.

 

[Nicholas123]

You may have your opinion, and I'm not going to oppose - we may differ in definition naturally, I'm no englishman.

I was taught that a marine diesel is: low rev, long stroke, heavy flywheel, go on anything, hand start, may be submerged, all servicing above, impervious to seawater. Starter/generator on top, crank above - so to be installed in bilges. Was not so long ago, btw.
Yanmar has no hand cranking flywheel, and although this may be possible, is not the primary way of starting.
Yanmar is aluminium - and seawater cooling can be done on it, as on any other, but aluminium is not best for it

Bukh is used for rescue - must be able to operate without electricity - and this makes it marine engine proper. Call me old fashioned, from lost era, primitive believer in world working without phone-call service, living in wilderness - so am I - but this is what was required of "marine engine".

The same way a Beta may be named marine engine - but for me it's marinised industrial.

Btw - how would you call Perkins 4108 seawater cooled unit for RN? (cause they call it marinised)


Then there must be something wrong. Remember, an electric starter for those was "option" to be ordered specially...
Well, was 20 some years ago when I started BUKH 1 cyl by hand, so not that I remember - but it was lever out, put some speed in flywheel, close. Should catch. Watch finger position on crank, some didn't
But started DV20 lately
Two hands may be helpfull, yes, specially on 2 cyl, unless you're bigger then me which means more than 60 kilo.
But then all those people spending lives at computers - what to expect of them
On boats often you have no space or place for yourself so to be able to use proper force. Place yourself well, use both hands. Then when the s****r is spinning fast you can let one hand off to close the lever.
On 2 cylinder only one lever may be closed (some have bar connecting them, this may be disposed of) as engine will run on one lung.

You can also spray some WD40 in inlet if this is cold start. Most problems when the compression is not so perfect, old age of engine.

To be more specific -

As is fashionable now: should provide with TV instructions - so first gogled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr_9CmzEm2M

Interesting info I shall try the two handed approach sometime......I did what that bloke did in the video but just could'nt get enough momentum up.My engine looked much stiffer than that.....& when started by the battery last time must have rattled on for well over a minute before I finally got it started.
I suspect that there is a knack that I hav'nt yet acquired.How much throttle do you have to give it? & do you prime it using that little pump thing first?

 

[Nicholas123]

I start mine by operating the decompressor lever with my left hand and turning the handle with my right. Turn the engine over several times until the momentum builds up and then scream "Start you b@stard!" (or your epithet of choice) at the same time letting go the decompression lever.

lol.I tried the one handed approach but could'nt really get the momentum up.Will try two hands next time but as soon as you take one hand off to operate the decompression lever it looses revs rapidly.Maybe I just need to go on a Charles Atlas coarse

 

[morrell1977]

I am thinking of buying a small boat for day trips and fishing trips, as a novice i am unsure of what motor in need , power wise and long/short shaft. I am not really looking for speed but something substantial enough to do the job with 4 on board. Any advice on a price for a second hand motor would also be appreciated.

 

[Nicholas123]

For around £150 you can get a VSR, no chance of getting a flat engine battery, even if your house batteries turn to dust.

What for goodness sake is a VSR not that I've got 150 quid to spend on one.

 

[mjcoon]

lol.I tried the one handed approach but could'nt really get the momentum up.Will try two hands next time but as soon as you take one hand off to operate the decompression lever it looses revs rapidly.Maybe I just need to go on a Charles Atlas coarse

Not too coarse, one hopes! Perhaps a lanyard can be rigged so you can drop the decompressor with your teeth? Maybe only for a one-man-band expert... It's a long time since I saw a crankable engine!

Mike.

 

[Bodach na mara]

To get back to Robertt's point, have you contacted J N McDonald in Whiteinch to see if parts are available for the engine in the boat you are thinking of? There are a lot of us sailing about in boats with engines which are no longer in production and we can get bits if we know where to look.

 

[Tranona]

This was the conclusion on a recent article on replacing engines in a French magazine. The Bukh was the only engine designed originally for marine use and was considered in the article to be very top quality.

A lot of the others eg Nanni and Beta (from memory) are marine adaptations on a Mitsubishi base.

That is just a myth as is the suggestion that an engine has to be different in some way for use in boats. It is true that many old style engines were primarily used in boats but that is because it was the main market. The world has changed and now the main market is for industrial use with marine a small market. With the possible exception of Yanmar just about all marine engines share the base engine with industrial units which are far superior in all respects to old style engines.

BTW Nanni and Beta are Kubota based.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Just budget for the engine replacement and knock it off the price you offer.

Just like that eh.

When I sell a boat I price it as it is. If the new owner wants a new engine, then he can buy it. Why should I pay for an engine I will not see let alone use.

If the engine is bust then that is also built into the asking price.

Any offer should be dependent on the value of the boat as she exists not on some future improvement. Start that game and where does it end.

New rigging, new sails, new cushions, factory refurbish of gel coat?

I will consider a reduction of 10% (say) on the whole offered package, but if a buyer starts itemising his reductions I stop listening to him unless he stays within the 10% that is built into my asking price.

If a buyer wants an as new boat at an old boat price I direct him to the manufacturer for a reality check. For instance the cost of a Contessa 32 is out of sight compared with good used examples.

If a buyer wants a boat in as new condition let him buy a new one.

As usual, another QED.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

What for goodness sake is a VSR not that I've got 150 quid to spend on one.

Here y'go. Brilliant, no more worry about start battery charging. Wouldn't be without it

 

[Tranona]

What for goodness sake is a VSR not that I've got 150 quid to spend on one.

A bit less than £150 usually but if you are not prepared to spend any money then you will never get any benefit from one so probably not worth finding out what you are missing.

However just so that you don't die of curiosity it is a device for splitting the charge from your alternator to your two banks of batteries. Ensures your engine start battery is always charged so that you can still start your engine if your house battery is run flat.