Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
As in ‘sudden, unplanned disassembly’?
Boating under the influence
- Thread starter Halcyon Yachts
- Start date
Bouba
Well-known member
As in ‘now it’s apart what do I do??
‘
Seven Spades
Well-known member
Here is a funny thing there is no actual "legal limit" for boats whereas cars have specific limits which are different in Scotland to the rest of the UK. However the police usually try to breathalyse professional yacht crew after an incident, I think it is an effort to set a president that the same limits apply but that is not what the legislation says.
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
Professional yacht crew, or indeed anyone acting in a professional capacity on boats in UK waters, are subject to the Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003, which originally set an alcohol limit of 80 milligrammes in blood, or 35 in breath, the same as that for driving in England and Wales.
However in 2017 the limit was reduced to align with international conventions, so it is now 50 in blood or whatever the equivalent is in breath, which is the same as the DD limit in Scotland and across much of Europe.
MGN 566 - Change of alcohol limits for seafarers | Port Skills and Safety
BTW, in case anyone was wondering, these limits also apply to lifeboat crew, both legally under the above act, and because the RNLI says so.
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Seven Spades
Well-known member
Clearly I have got something g mixed up perhaps it is leisure yachtsmen who don’t have a prescribed limit.
ylop
Well-known member
yes that is what I said a few pages ago! Although for some reason I've never got to the bottom of the DD limit in Scotland is 22 ug/100mL in breath rather than 25 ug/100mL
Interesting - I didn't know there was a strict policy. How do they manage/enforce that? Breathalyser in the station? Assumption of honesty on the part of crew? Judging morning after is hard anyway - must be harder if you don't know when you might be needed? Do crew "on call" just not drink?
That is correct. Except when its not! Some harbour authorities will have a limit which applies regardless of your professional status.
I think it might be argued that s83 (requirement to provide a sample) applies anyway if the police suspect you may be a professional (even if you are not).
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Like airline staff, doctors, police etc, lifeboatmen on the schedule for callout don’t drink.
Supertramp
Well-known member
Interesting discussion and Halcyon Yachts makes it clear what the position should be for those working on boats.
At the heart of this is the relationship between the UK state and leisure water users. We enjoy a very rare area of life where mandatory and legal demands are low and reliance is put on water users to be sensible in many areas (safety, environment, antisocial behaviour). Skippers make choices and decisions based their situation and opinions. Different skippers will make different judgements.
So for me and others in this thread I don't drink on passage, but I might have a restrained drink at anchor and less restrained one tied up. But I respect the freedom of our sport to let others decide differently so long as they don't create a hazard, cause damage or be antisocial.
When I watch and experience some of the behaviours in crowded waters on hot sunny days I could be persuaded to a less liberal position. But I really hope that leisure sailing remains an area regulated by common sense, personal choice and freedom.
At the heart of this is the relationship between the UK state and leisure water users. We enjoy a very rare area of life where mandatory and legal demands are low and reliance is put on water users to be sensible in many areas (safety, environment, antisocial behaviour). Skippers make choices and decisions based their situation and opinions. Different skippers will make different judgements.
So for me and others in this thread I don't drink on passage, but I might have a restrained drink at anchor and less restrained one tied up. But I respect the freedom of our sport to let others decide differently so long as they don't create a hazard, cause damage or be antisocial.
When I watch and experience some of the behaviours in crowded waters on hot sunny days I could be persuaded to a less liberal position. But I really hope that leisure sailing remains an area regulated by common sense, personal choice and freedom.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Reminds me, unfortunately, of the government calling for common sense a couple of years ago.
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
You don’t say whether you can put them back together again.
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
Pretty much that. Any crew that want a drink can book off on the call-out app, plus the helms especially stay in contact using WhatsApp, to make sure there's one of us available to cover the boat.
Minchsailor
Well-known member
I am reminded that in the 1920s, the late Adlard Coles was sailing in Swedish waters (quite a rare thing for an English yachtsman to do at that time), and finding Sweden had strict regulations for purchasing alcohol commented "It was most necessary to have some spirits on board, as teetotalism, when cruising under cold, wet and difficult conditions, is simply an invitation to pneumonia .".
thinwater
Well-known member
Since "contact" is not defined as related to being under the influence (there were 794 arrests) we don't know what the "contact" number means. So just a headline.
Not sayin' there is not WAY to much boozing in some areas, almost entirely on smaller power boats.
Here, a BAC of >0.08 is under the influence, so a single beer won't do it.
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And any % we get will be hopelessly influenced by response bias.
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Personally, I have very little interest in drinking more than one since I passed about 22. But but it also depends on the conditions. Driving home from a local restaurant is diffrent than driving in heavy snow. An anchored boat in a calm harbor is differnt from a rough dinghy ride or a stormy sail. Experience matters, not re. drink but recognizing hazardous conditions.
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Sea-Fever
Active member
I have the odd drink on passage and also tied up. It’s a leisure activity centred on freedom.
I wonder how much people enjoy their leisure if they are petrified of ‘what a coroner will say’ because they dared to have a drink. Maybe stay at home then. If you are working on the sea, well it’s your employers right to enforce a no drink policy to ensure high standards, so no argument there.
Don’t people value freedom any more? I tend to rail against super stringent rule based living…..feel like I’m in jail anyway. Have a drink and be sensible, don’t put others at risk. Enjoy life.
I wonder how much people enjoy their leisure if they are petrified of ‘what a coroner will say’ because they dared to have a drink. Maybe stay at home then. If you are working on the sea, well it’s your employers right to enforce a no drink policy to ensure high standards, so no argument there.
Don’t people value freedom any more? I tend to rail against super stringent rule based living…..feel like I’m in jail anyway. Have a drink and be sensible, don’t put others at risk. Enjoy life.
Kelpie
Well-known member
Ah yes, 'common sense'... a completely meaningless phase which assumes that everybody has the same knowledge and experience and will therefore reach the same conclusions. It imparts no actual information and generally is only used when someone is too lazy to actually explain what they mean.
Supertramp
Well-known member
Common sense.
"The ability to think and behave in a reasonable way and to make good decisions".
It does not assume the same knowledge, experience or conclusions.
Your common sense and mine might be different, and lead to different judgements. Hopefully without drama, hazard or injury.
Its the unwritten code that makes most people coexist safely.
"The ability to think and behave in a reasonable way and to make good decisions".
It does not assume the same knowledge, experience or conclusions.
Your common sense and mine might be different, and lead to different judgements. Hopefully without drama, hazard or injury.
Its the unwritten code that makes most people coexist safely.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Putting the creme eggs into the correct end of your alimentary tract is a start.
Supertramp
Well-known member
Agree, although my common sense might be not putting them in either end....
Uricanejack
Well-known member
Well this got lots of responses.
What do you mean by under the influence.
Clearly as a professional skipper my answer would be no.
I have different personal policies.
Working is dry. For me and crew and a breach of this Drug and Alchol policy? Ah well it’s a disease you see.
Stood down from duty immediately and replaced at first port.
terminated not right away. If one goes though a program.
Unfortunately the majority of cases I have dealt with have unhappy endings.
some very unhappy.
This was not my policy 30 to 40 odd years ago in Uk. I would have to admit the way of life in the Uk and on a UK registered vessel involved regularly having a drink. I was often over the limit at some point in time after my watch.
I didn’t go on watch over the limit.
mad for the person in charge. My full expectation of most was they would wait until the sun was over the yard arm then all bets were off.
Im not familiar with current Uk law. Or industry practice.
sailing for pleasure. I do not insist on dry.
If I were working And sailing I would stay dry.
Not a problem for me. In my youth I worked hard and played hard.
Wife and kids I settled down my current life style. I don’t drink much, I enjoy an occasional nice beer or malt. Not if I’m driving. Maybe one small glass of beer.
not even that of on my motorcycle.
if im
Home and or staying overnight in a hotel or with friends or at anchor or in the dock
I might have more.
even so as a general rule I would not exceed the traditional driving . 8
. 4 maybe.
My question to the OP is about clarification.
What is your company drug and alcohol policy?
Completly dry.
or
Not under the influence?
which is quite different from dry.
does this apply to all crew or just the person in charge.