Boating on a budget

[Seajet]

Recession may be a good thing

I also think they will not accept membership from newcommers if their yacht exceeds 30 foot which counted me out straight away.

The Hardway YC's idea is that members with small boats will be needing larger moorings as they change their yachts and therefore not allow anyone to join as this would 'jump the queue' for deep(er) water moorings.

.

I'm not a member of Hardway but have visited a few times, had great evenings and been on other peoples' boats around there; they seem like a fantastic bunch to me, and the recruiting system of 'small boats first' sounds to me like it should be carved in granite!

I'm fed up with clueless yuppies going straight for 35'+ boats then on finding they are indeed berks thinking a bow thruster will cure the evil intent of the design, they were never at fault...

 

[sailorman]

I'm not a member of Hardway but have visited a few times, had great evenings and been on other peoples' boats around there; they seem like a fantastic bunch to me, and the recruiting system of 'small boats first' sounds to me like it should be carved in granite!

I'm fed up with clueless yuppies going straight for 35'+ boats then on finding they are indeed berks thinking a bow thruster will cure the evil intent of the design, they were never at fault...

Yep 100% correct, i didnt have a bow thruster in my Silhouette Mk11.
but did have
plumbed in water,Ball Hd, gas hob

 

[lenseman]

. . . I'm fed up with clueless yuppies going straight for 35'+ boats then on finding they are indeed berks thinking a bow thruster will cure the evil intent of the design, they were never at fault...

I think that the clueless Yuppies will be sailing out of Gosport Premier in the very near future as I have heard that a large part of Gosport Premier is to be set aside for them, including car parking. They are moving in from from Royal Clarence.

 

[William_H]

A book on budget sailing

I think you are quite right in that times have changed from the era of the old sailors and their books.
A budget sailor needs a good "bang for his bucks."
So things like a simple GPS gives so much bang for the small bucks compared to the old sailors who persevered with sextant.
Or an old fibreglass boat can give so much good hull for little money compared to old timber.
Then of course there is the problem of mooring the boat on the cheap. This is a subject that seems to be changing constantly.
Sails can be old but still good. How can you tell a good old sail that will be reliable? Modern materials have changed that situation since the old sailors wrote.
Aluminium masts are wonderful but need different care to wooden masts more differences.
Stainless steel rigging wire and its shortcomings. Cost of replacement can be good bang for buck IMHO.
Ultimately if you can't find a book or write one then try this forum for advice. good luck olewill

 

[GrahamM376]

Whats more, those who have the money are far less inclined to work on a boat or a car or anything else - they expect not to have to do that and they mostly dont have the skills either. It's the issue of car maintenance where the cars are now so reliable that the numbers of people who know how to remove a cylinder head and de-coke it are falling every year. You see it every day on here with people asking questions that are, to those of us old enough to have stripped down engines, wired houses etc, really pretty noddy.

Times have indeed changed. For most of us who grew up in the 60's, the only way to afford a car or motor bike was to do the work ourselves, same applied to house maintenance. We now live in a more affluent era where practical skills are fast disappearing as more people can afford to pay for work to be done and manufacturers are doing their best to make products (particularly cars) DIY unserviceable.

I find this trend worrying when coming across boat owners who don't know how to do simple things like checking engine oil levels or changing a filter and even had one chump ask me where his sea cocks were - he'd owned the boat for seven years!

 

[Norman_E]

Times have indeed changed. For most of us who grew up in the 60's, the only way to afford a car or motor bike was to do the work ourselves, same applied to house maintenance. We now live in a more affluent era where practical skills are fast disappearing as more people can afford to pay for work to be done and manufacturers are doing their best to make products (particularly cars) DIY unserviceable.

I find this trend worrying when coming across boat owners who don't know how to do simple things like checking engine oil levels or changing a filter and even had one chump ask me where his sea cocks were - he'd owned the boat for seven years!

You should have explained to him how to test the seacocks: First remove the pipe, then open it to see if water comes in.

As for sailing on a budget, of course you can do it, but just remember that the actual budget is about double what you calculated before buying the boat.

EDIT: I wish people would stop calling anyone who buys a bigger boat as their first yacht a clueless yuppie. My first and probably only yacht is a 45 footer. At 60 when I bought it I did not have the time to start with a dinghy and work up 3 feet at a time. Oh, and I do most of my own maintenance.

 

[Zagato]

I have seen such books reviewed by the Drascombe Association in their club mag but you could try their forum (sorry don't keep the mags!). I think those with skills are still around to sail and maintain their boats on a low budget but maybe they are now a small minority. They are the sort that get more satisfaction from making or inventing something rather than just buying it from the chandlers.

Generally the guys with Drascombes sail on the VERY cheap but still manage to do club rally coastal runs e.g. Chi - Poole and beyond, round the IOW as well as estuary creek crawls and inland stuff.

It's the kind of sailing I am still drawn to, they seem to do what others do without the 3-4K annual costs, more like 3-4 hundred. OK you may not have a spacious interior cabin but then you havn't got the hassle of seacocks, inboard engines, gas systems, hull maintenance - anti fouling etc, windlasses when you can just pull up by hand, tenders, winterizing everything, haul outs etc etc. I will defintely be going back to something like a Drascombe, Shrimper or Swallow Baycruiser boat at some point. You can easily do everything yourself on those with little expense.

If you are in the classic car/bike/stationary engine/small boat type circles you will realise their are still MANY people out their floating whole industries by carrying on with the old skills.....thankfully many of the younger generation are taking up those skills also

All on a hangover already Sounds like the Xmas lunch washing up has been magically done time to get back to the kids

 

[Lakesailor]

If you are in the classic car/bike/stationary engine/small boat type circles you will realise their are still MANY people out their floating whole industries by carrying on with the old skills.....

Since getting into Sporting Trials I have been amazed at the industry that is supported by older and motorsport vehicles.

I find it amazing that some businesses carry huge stocks of old parts and newly built parts etc.

I also see that many of the customers (just like boaters/chandlers) have an uneasy relationship. They see the suppliers as ripping them off and berate innovators as "cashing-in" on the enthusiasm of competitors.
Running a business with a small customer base (I bet there aren't more than 500 trials cars in the UK, probably half that actually competing) is a very marginal thing. Some of the best manufacturers have given up.

When car main dealers are charging over £60 per hour to plug in a laptop, how does a small business make a living supplying people who begrudge spending anything over the raw material costs?

Buying new bits for an old and nearly valueless boat always seems like money down the drain.

 

[Fantasie 19]

There doesn’t seem to be anything aimed at how to buy an older boat, do it up and sail (weekending and perhaps coastal cruises) and how to do it safely on a budget. A bit like Practice boat but with more depth and in a book format.

I’m not a writer and I don’t have the time but does the panel think that there is a gap in the market for something like this?

Dylan, a project for you perhaps?

Maybe, but I got this today for Christmas (thanks, sis! ) and it seems to fit all your criteria????

 

[bitbaltic]

This was the first boaty book I bought. 'How to sail on a budget'.

http://www.bookharbour.com/cruising/how-to-sail-on-a-budget/

Even bought it second hand, I thank you.

Comprehensively ignored it's title, but it is full of good advice.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

There are loads of old books on that sort of subject but as Slow Boat unwillingly hints - times have moved on. The population is much more divided than ever before into those at the bottom who cannot even think about that sort of hobby and those in the top half who have the money to buy a boat that doesnt need more than tinkering with.

Whats more, those who have the money are far less inclined to work on a boat or a car or anything else - they expect not to have to do that and they mostly dont have the skills either. It's the issue of car maintenance where the cars are now so reliable that the numbers of people who know how to remove a cylinder head and de-coke it are falling every year. You see it every day on here with people asking questions that are, to those of us old enough to have stripped down engines, wired houses etc, really pretty noddy.

I think there's another factor as well - and that's that in most areas that used to be DIY (such as house wiring!), a body of "best practice" has grown up over the years, and become ensconced in regulations. For example, I bought a new house in January. It is brand new, and the plumbing is (according to the builder, the plumber who did the installation and the NHBC inspector) up to current building regulations etc. However, I had it examined for a maintenance agreement, and the inspector had to down-check it in one tiny regard - the outlet from the safety valve on the hot water is led into the waste system rather than to an outside wall (the water system is pressurized). In itself this isn't a down-check, but because it could not be inspected without serious disassembly of various panels, the inspector had to mark it "not to current standards". We know it is, the plumber knows it is, the inspector knew it was but as the inspector couldn't see it, it had to be marked down.

In this case it wasn't important; it is covered by the NHBC certificate anyway. But any serious DIY these days has to be inspected by a qualified electrician/plumber, and what are the chances of an ordinary guy like you and me knowing all these "best practise" rules? The result is that as I know I'm going to have to get any major work inspected anyway, and I KNOW I don't know all the possible rules that may affect me, I may just as well employ a plumber (or electrican or whatever) in the first place. I won't save money by DIY, and may well end up costing myself far more than I could save.

DIY requires that attitudes to best practise are fairly elastic, as the chances of someone doing a job they will do once in a blue moon dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's is pretty remote. Also, DIY hand-books don't come with a "use-by" date, and what was OK a few years ago may well be wrong now. I have some pretty ancient DIY books around; i suspect that if I foillowed their advice these days, I'd end up with a system that couldn't be certified.

 

[wotayottie]

If you are in the classic car/bike/stationary engine/small boat type circles you will realise their are still MANY people out their floating whole industries by carrying on with the old skills.....thankfully many of the younger generation are taking up those skills also

eek:

True, but what is their average age? You won't see many 30 year olds amongst them

 

[Blue5]

EDIT: I wish people would stop calling anyone who buys a bigger boat as their first yacht a clueless yuppie. My first and probably only yacht is a 45 footer. At 60 when I bought it I did not have the time to start with a dinghy and work up 3 feet at a time. Oh, and I do most of my own maintenance.

Agreed, the usual utter drivel you expect now from the same minority.

 

[William_H]

Buying a boat

t.

EDIT: I wish people would stop calling anyone who buys a bigger boat as their first yacht a clueless yuppie. My first and probably only yacht is a 45 footer. At 60 when I bought it I did not have the time to start with a dinghy and work up 3 feet at a time. Oh, and I do most of my own maintenance.

That is the ideal situation to buy the boat you mean to end up with. I must admire your courage however in jumping in feet first. Good luck and I hope the purchase is a success.
Me I bought a small boat and never traded up. I still don't know if I should have bought a bigger one.
good luck olewill

 

[Zagato]

True, but what is their average age? You won't see many 30 year olds amongst them

Agreed, A Drascombe owners average is about 60 years old, a Land Rover Series II owner 45. It's not only money but time to play with your toys. Kids usually hamper playtime until they are old enough to join in or look after themselves. Generally work also seems to be more intense these days involving more hours, you live and breath the damn job

My father was a Headmaster, he was home at 5.00 (even came home for lunch ) and took all his holidays. My wife's a teacher, she works 11 -12 hours a day minimum and works one third of her holidays - miserable job and the workload is getting worse. It's no wonder 75% of teachers leave the job within 5 years of qualifying...

The ideal would be to make a living from your hobby in a way that it doesn't spoil your enthusiasm for your interest - not easy I shouldn't think. I often wonder how much these guys that deliver boats for a living still enjoy sailing - sounds like a great job to me

Oh if anyone knows of any nice vocations out there, let me know!!

 

[Searush]

(snip)
EDIT: I wish people would stop calling anyone who buys a bigger boat as their first yacht a clueless yuppie. My first and probably only yacht is a 45 footer. At 60 when I bought it I did not have the time to start with a dinghy and work up 3 feet at a time. Oh, and I do most of my own maintenance.

Fine, you don't fit that particular stereo-type. Now convince me they don't exist, when I have met them - and sometimes they post on these fora!

Incidentally, you overstate the advice proffered. If people ask "how do I learn to sail" - I will always answer in a cheap dinghy. Because it is quick, simple & feedback is instant! If they want to learn to cruise, then the choice is a cheap boat (or dinghy) then, when you know what you want, you can trade up to it.

You are very rare to be able to know what you want at the outset AND to be able to afford it.

I learnt to sail in dinks (all I could afford) then I knew what I wanted, but had to be content with what I could afford. Eventually I was able to buy what I wanted & have had my current boat for 25 years now. I may never change it, although a newer one might be nicer IF it was lower maintenance - unfortunately I see no evidence that newer is necessarily better.

 

[Norman_E]

That is the ideal situation to buy the boat you mean to end up with. I must admire your courage however in jumping in feet first. Good luck and I hope the purchase is a success.
Me I bought a small boat and never traded up. I still don't know if I should have bought a bigger one.
good luck olewill

The boat has been a huge success. I have had 7 seasons sailing her and have carried out some modifications to suit my own preferences. Last September and October my wife could not go sailing as she was selling a flat, and I sailed over 800 NM single handed.