Boating in southern Europe - how much can I expect to pay?

[jeff1980]

Hi,

I've been toying with the idea of buying a holiday home for a couple of years now but have not been able to settle on a particular country/resort to buy. My main criteria is that the place must have a nice marina with a good choice of restaurants but I am conscious that, as I can only afford to buy one holiday home, I will be stuck to holidaying in just one resort for the rest of my life (to get value for money)!

It occurred to me recently that buying a boat would be the ideal solution to the above - the main advantage being that I do not have to settle for one particular resort. Whilst I have had boating holidays on the canals of southern France in the past, and really enjoyed them, its fair to say that I can coming at this as a complete beginner... therefore, I have a few 'newbie' questions, as below:

1- I am looking to buy a boat that can house two people comfortably but can stretch to housing 4 on rare occasions. It would need to have all the necessary equipment/appliances to be able to live on and must be sea-worthy enough to hop from country to country (mainly along the coast of southern Europe - I certainly wont be using it to cross the Atlantic or anything like that!). With this is mind, how much roughly can I expect to pay for such a boat? I realise I may have been a bit vague with regards to the criteria I require - but I am coming at this as a complete beginner and all I am after is just a ball park figure at the moment.

2- My idea would be to fly out to somewhere in southern Europe to use the boat for only maybe around 2/3 months a year - the rest of the time it would have to be moored somewhere safe. Where would be the cheapest place/country to moor the boat (in southern Europe) for 9/10 months of the year? and how much (again roughly) can I expect to pay?

3- I am sure these will come across as a stupid questions, but, if say for example I were planning to cross from Barcelona over to Marseille, would I have to get any kind of permission to cross from one country to another? are there any kind of rules I would need to comply to with regards to how far off the coast I could go when crossing? do you have to book a time slot or anything like that in order to avoid ferries/larger boats in the area?

Thanks in advance,

Jeff

 

[Adrian]

Lots to think about there!

The simple answer is yes not only is it possible but lots of people do it but owning a boat is not like owning a apartment, on going maintenance mooring charges can be very expensive especially if you want to be in a "nice" place.

I think you need to start by giving us a budget, how much have you got to spend £50K+, £100K+, £250K+?
But remember "A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour money"!

 

[jeff1980]

Ok...

The amount of money I have to spend depends on how much boats hold their value... I would be prepared to pay up to 50-60k if the boat was to be worth the same amount 10 years down the line? If it doesn't work that way and the value depreciates in the same way cars do, then I would be looking more like 30k

With regards to the long term mooring cost - when using the boat I would be using it for 2/3 months at a time which would give me ample time to travel to and from anywhere in Europe or the UK to moor up for the rest of the year. So essentially I would make sure to moor in the cheapest place possible.

 

[philld]

My approach would be to do a couple bareboat charters out in the Med, this will give you some idea of what you want from a boat and your preferred cruising area. Chartering a boat for a couple of weeks will probably cost in the same sort of region as your running costs for a boat for a year. However, before you can charter a boat, you'll need to obtain your ICC (International Certificate of Competence). Training through a RYA approved training centre is a cheap way of finding out if actually like boating.

To start with, go to the London Boat Show this week, find out about training, and find out about charter companies. You can also look at the boats!

 

[jeff1980]

I'm based in Yorkshire and cant make London this week unfortunately due to work commitments. Are there any places that sell boats up north where I could go to look around, seek advice etc?

 

[anterak]

Look to Turkey side

Look to Turkey side :

• Weather is fine
  
• People are very kind
  
• Marina are cheap, for example : Setur Marina ( http://www.seturmarinas.com/en/ ) in Kusadasi give you a space of 27 m2 (8,9 m x 3m) for 1800 €/year (take a look to the picture)
  
• High level of technical and normal services (price example : Antifouling : 750 € / Full boat protection/cover : 1700 € / Boat lifting : 360 € / ...
  
• Buying a boat there is cheaper also (Tezmarin a.k.a Beneteau biggest's distributor in the world make very agressive prices for news and second hand boat www.tezmarin.com ) For a new 29' mtb expect an amount of 75K £ with 2 x 150 verado
  
• Greek Island are very close, 11Nm for Samos

It's one of the best et cheapest place in Mediteraneen. If you compare with France Med coast expect around 3000 €/year for harbour cost (and it's not a marina like in Turkey)

Setur Marina - Kusadasi, Turkey

 

[jrudge]

TO be comfortable for 2, with occasionally 4 I would think around 40 feet.

You could go smaller, but if you are spending 2-3 months on it per annum you need some level of space.

Boats don't generally hold their value - the older it is the slower the pain. I had a Fairline Targa 40 for 4 years and this was comfortable for 2 adults and 2 kids and we spent circa 10-12 weeks per annum on it. Price wise will be £100k +

 

[anterak]

Oh and i forgot, expect something around 6000 €/year minimum (marina cost, taxes, wintering, insurance, motor maintenance, ...) + fuel consumption for a 29' boat

 

[Tranona]

It occurred to me recently that buying a boat would be the ideal solution to the above - the main advantage being that I do not have to settle for one particular resort. Whilst I have had boating holidays on the canals of southern France in the past, and really enjoyed them, its fair to say that I can coming at this as a complete beginner... therefore, I have a few 'newbie' questions, as below:



Thanks in advance,

Jeff

There is a lot to think about here. While your idea sounds attractive, you will find it difficult to achieve from scratch with no (or little) experience and a limited budget.

First the positive bits. Many people do what you are thinking about in some way or another. There are no formal limits to cruising from one country to another provided you have the correct paperwork (not difficult to arrange). Most people use a sailing boat for the purpose, mainly because of cost. Power boats of a size and type that are suitable for both living on and cruising are expensive to buy, fuel and maintain. The biggest on going cost is mooring - "cheap" places are virtually impossible to find, at least in the Western Med. The cheapest places are in the east, Greece and Turkey, but they are less accessible, summer only and much less developed than the west.

The biggest constraint however, is cost. Your £50k will buy you an older boat, and it will lose money and probably prove difficult to sell if you change your mind. Using for only short periods a year will likely mean you spend more time on keeping the boat running and finding places to store it when you are not using it. Most people who go down this route are already experienced and have owned boats at home, or even sailed their boat there so are familiar with what is involved in running a boat.

As has already been suggested, perhaps a good idea to get some experience first, both of using a boat and living in hot climates. You can get holidays in Greece and Turkey where part of the time is learning to sail and part sailing on a cruiser to get a taste of the nomadic life. You may well find that financially it is better to charter rather than own. From my own experience of owning a boat in Greece, it only starts to make sense financially over chartering when you are using it over 5 weeks a year, and even then the hassle factor is still there, as of course is the capital tied up in a depreciating asset that is difficult to turn onto cash.

You may find it useful to scan down the Liveaboard forum here as there are many threads on this and related subjects.

 

[Trundlebug]

One thing worth adding to the above good points already made.

Costs vary widely depending upon how handy you are.
If you're not much of a DIYer and can't generally fix electrical problems or service and repair engines, you'll have to get people in to fix them for you and that will be costly.

If you're pretty handy with mechanical and electrical maintenance of things then all things are possible at much lower cost.
But you still have to devote time and effort into them to get them fixed.

The marine environment is generally quite harsh on things and you'll find that there are always jobs that need doing on a boat.
The older the boat, the more things will need doing.
For some that's all part of the experience (and joy) of boat ownership. For others it's a pain the the a**e.

Only you know what you'll like. But don't expect it to be anything like a modern car, where you probably don't lift the bonnet between services.

From my experience, boats like to be used. Things on them work better and more reliably when regularly used.
Problems begin when they're left standing for months and ignored.

 

[anterak]

.... The cheapest places are in the east, Greece and Turkey, but they are less accessible, summer only and much less developed than the west...

Hi Tranona, i don't know what you mean by "less developed", may be it's true in Greece but not in Turkey. I can confirm you that all marina that i saw from Izmir to Bodrum are all A LOT MORE developped than what i saw in "cote d'azur' (French Med riviera) for example. And all boat services like : boat cover (handmade), antifouling, litfing, motor maintenance were all very well executed for a cheaper prize than in Europe where i'm living

 

[blueglass]

don't expect it to be anything like a modern car, where you probably don't lift the bonnet between services.

How very true - and this is the trap I think many newcomers to boating fall into. I did it myself on our first boat and the learning curve is a painful one.
With your budget OP you will be looking at older boats and you will need as others have indicated at least a 40ft boat for long term comfort.

Just to give you an idea from our own experience - We had a similar master plan to your own with our last boat and found 40ft ideal. It cost us around £140K for a good quality 7 year old boat and we found Greece very much cheaper and more enjoyable for a variety of reasons than the western Med. I can expand on that if interested.
For your suggested budget of £30K however, I think you may be letting yourself in for a hard time of it. Maintenance costs and hassle will be a major factor and if you are expecting years of trouble free relaxing holidays - think long and hard.