alt
Well-Known Member
Customs as i'm purchasing from non-EU. It's now cheaper to source my equipment in Germany, despite delivery charges being higher.
Boating and Brexit.
- Thread starter oldgit
- Start date
gordmac
Well-Known Member
If you are taking a lot of stuff in and out of the EU I think the paperwork you should have is called a carnet. Not sure how much you need to be taking, it is an issue for people doing Motorsport in the EU due to tools, spares, tyres etc being carried. You have to have paperwork for it all and what you take in you take out again including, I believe, used tyres.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Have you seen the cost of a carnet?
oldgit
Well-Known Member
The Carnet.
The good old pre EU days.
Used to buy stuff from Belgium, office on quay at Dover Docks would produce the bits of paper required to import stuff , all chargeable of course , then help to calculate the taxes due, all chargable of course.
How long ?
Join the que mate , we might be able to get you sorted in an hour or two if you are lucky.
gordmac
Well-Known Member
Not something I need so no but I believe from the Motorsport press it is not cheap although if you keep taking the same stuff you only need one for all trips. Not sure at what point you need one for taking stuff abroad, I would hope a car boot full would be ok but who knows?
Oldgit, now also the bad new post EU days!
Portofino
Well-Known Member
How does this effect a U.K. private individual about to pull the trigger on a brand newie at Cannes ? Seriously Question, can’t get anywhere with Google .
Give us a bit more detail why you posted this quoting my post , what’s the significance?
kashurst
Well-Known Member
You seem to be under the impression that UK buyers have some sort of brexit advantage re: VAT not paid status. There isn't. There are absolutely no brexit advantages of any kind in any form. There has been for quite some time ways for UK people to buy boats and not pay VAT.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Answer the Q , explain how your “ 6 th list “ thing works for private U.K. individuals , I am still ( and readers on here ) none the wiser with ^^^ reply.
Private individual s .
Not business reasons like rental / charter .
How ? does your “ 6 th list “ comment fit in ?
The advantage of brexit and 3 P status confers private individuals VAT free boating in the EU med under the TI scheme .
This was not an option while the U.K. was in the EU .To me that’s a massive advantage going fwds .
Obviously needs a bit of planing the 18 M day trip out or what ever but as I inferred , try a Cyprus or Malta , N Adriatic , S Spain mainland Marina base .
Whats not to like ?
Pre Brexit private individual s had to , forced to pay tax .
I white this waiting for you spell out how this “ 6 th list “ works. Please do .
Portofino
Well-Known Member
@ Kashurst
Did you miss this outlined in Red ?
Where have you been
?
Used Boats, VAT and Brexit: What We Know So Far
Did you miss this outlined in Red ?
Where have you been
?Used Boats, VAT and Brexit: What We Know So Far
Tranona
Well-Known Member
One wonders where he has been for the last 2 years when the news has been dominated by Brexit with UK/Eire issues being prominent. Have no sympathy for anybody intending spending that kind of money who does not do any basic research as to what is involved in buying a boat from another country outside the EU. Maybe the broker was remiss in not telling the buyer - who knows.
Seastoke
Well-Known Member
Its not the sellers job the buyer might have wanted to keep it in the uk
Tranona
Well-Known Member
If buying a new boat for use in the EU then a UK resident does not have to pay VAT and can keep the boat for 18 months under the TA rules. This can be renewed by leaving the EU and then returning to start another 18 months. VAT is payable only if sold or imported into the EU(or UK)when it will be payable on market value, not original cost. Swiss residents have been taking advantage of this for years.
For some UK buyers this will be a good deal if they can live with the (not very onerous) restrictions.
kashurst
Well-Known Member
Very true, but there have been other ways available for a long time for UK residents to avoid paying VAT on boats and using them in EU waters.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Can you ( 3 rd time asking ) give an example please .Bearing in mind the private individual status .
Ie not chartering , hiring or anything commercial .
Also tie up what you meant by the “ 6 th list “ we are all none wiser how that would work .
gordmac
Well-Known Member
Maybe I misunderstood but I took it that the 6th was the date of the list referred to.
The VAT thing must be of relevance to only a small % of the already small number of boat owners. I suspect the issue has disadvantaged more people than advantaged.
The VAT thing must be of relevance to only a small % of the already small number of boat owners. I suspect the issue has disadvantaged more people than advantaged.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Yours truly is very aware now if we wish to import a boat from Spain into UK will have to pop a 20% Brexit "penalty " onto the asking price.
julians
Well-Known Member
The 6th list (or lista 6) in spain is one of the spanish boat/ship registries - they have a number of different ones depending on the use of the boat:-
- List 1st: offshore platforms
- List 2: merchant ships
- List 3: fishing boats
- 4th list: auxiliary fishing vessels
- List 5: Port services
- List 6: pleasure boats for profit
- List 7th: non-profit pleasure boats
- 8th list: Administration and Defense ships
- 9th list: ships under construction
More info here : List 6: Advantages and disadvantages | Marine Nautical Management (marinos.es)
Essentially if you fulfil the requirements , a boat on lista 6 can be vat and registration tax free.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Or import a vat ( tax free ) and thus lower priced one from the EU , ask Kashurst he reckons plenty about anyhow …perhaps he can explain his post #47 to you .
Quote , the whole post nothing taken out of context btw .
-“ You seem to be under the impression that UK buyers have some sort of brexit advantage re: VAT not paid status. There isn't. There are absolutely no brexit advantages of any kind in any form. There has been for quite some time ways for UK people to buy boats and not pay VAT.”
Or alternatively if you were to buy a U.K. boat vat free you could export to the EU and save 20 % under TI , taking advantage of this benefit .
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Thx J .A voice of reason
.So commercial charter / rentals company owned as I suspected , nothings changed with Brexit there .Brexits made zero difference , this is neutral.
The same VAT concessions are available to a U.K. based rental / charter co .
No private individual with any sense * would go down this vat free route setting up a faux company charter / rental business . Either side of the channel .Remember in the eyes of the revenue(s) if it’s big , got a trunk , flappy ears , and grey it’s an elephant. You might wanna label it something else , but will see it’s an elephant.
You can’ t get away with a charter boat set up if you are the main beneficial user and say rent it out for a nominal time or say “ no one booked officer so I used it for 4 months instead …..might as well sir “ - Good luck with that if thats what the none believers to this new found Brexit benefit of private TI think has not changed ?
* I reserve the right to lay open the to suggestion there are actually a few out there with no sense
.
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
It's really quite simple. I've already bought and kept a VAT-free boat in Croatia for a few years before they joined the EU. I purposely bought one that would be more than 8 years old at the point of accession so that it would be imported into the EU when Croatia joined without paying VAT.
A few things to note ....
There are plenty of boats available in the EU that do not have VAT paid, but these tend to have been used commercially (ex charter boats mostly) or they belong to individuals who had the boat under temporary admission - these are much rarer and more effort/risk because the boat registration etc. is all outside the EU - so tracing the chain of ownership of a boat registered in Delaware for example in sufficient detail to satisfy the UK ships register can be quite a challenge - or it just costs money with a reputable broker. Not impossible as long as you either do the legwork yourself or pay someone else handsomely for doing it for you.
My boat was an ex-charter - which to me wasn't a problem - and it took me a few months to track down invoices back to the original owner (A leasing company in Austria) and get them all translated and stamped "paid in full" to satisfy the UK ships register. If you buy a VAT paid boat in the EU, then you can try and export it and reclaim VAT paid, but from what I have heard there are usually issues with valuation and it can be a whole heap of time, effort and money.
The only people who really benefit IMO from VAT-free boats in the EU are those buying new with delivery to the med and those buying expensive - which to be honest is not exactly the majority of boat owners.
There are obviously considerable savings to be made for boats upwards of €1M ... but for the average 50-100K boat, a saving of around 10-20K might just about pay for all the things you need over and above the basic charter inventory, or a few years marina fees. Not to be sniffed at but there are also expenses involved in buying the thing in the first place - flights/accomodation for viewing, translations, export costs on purchase, flying out a trusted surveyor etc, and this all eats into the savings made - of course with a saving of upwards of €200K there is still plenty of saving left after the purchase costs. Buying locally eliminates most of these costs.
Buying second-hand, VAT free, was an adventure and at times I felt completely powerless in the face of the bureaucracy involved, especially the re-registration and export part - so much so that I ended up with a "fixer" who assisted on the day of export - at a cost of €300 cash if my memory serves me right. And then there is the 180 day TA rules and the 90/180 Schengen rules to contend with - I'm glad I no longer have to plan in the "export days" required to reset the TA clock.
A few things to note ....
There are plenty of boats available in the EU that do not have VAT paid, but these tend to have been used commercially (ex charter boats mostly) or they belong to individuals who had the boat under temporary admission - these are much rarer and more effort/risk because the boat registration etc. is all outside the EU - so tracing the chain of ownership of a boat registered in Delaware for example in sufficient detail to satisfy the UK ships register can be quite a challenge - or it just costs money with a reputable broker. Not impossible as long as you either do the legwork yourself or pay someone else handsomely for doing it for you.
My boat was an ex-charter - which to me wasn't a problem - and it took me a few months to track down invoices back to the original owner (A leasing company in Austria) and get them all translated and stamped "paid in full" to satisfy the UK ships register. If you buy a VAT paid boat in the EU, then you can try and export it and reclaim VAT paid, but from what I have heard there are usually issues with valuation and it can be a whole heap of time, effort and money.
The only people who really benefit IMO from VAT-free boats in the EU are those buying new with delivery to the med and those buying expensive - which to be honest is not exactly the majority of boat owners.
There are obviously considerable savings to be made for boats upwards of €1M ... but for the average 50-100K boat, a saving of around 10-20K might just about pay for all the things you need over and above the basic charter inventory, or a few years marina fees. Not to be sniffed at but there are also expenses involved in buying the thing in the first place - flights/accomodation for viewing, translations, export costs on purchase, flying out a trusted surveyor etc, and this all eats into the savings made - of course with a saving of upwards of €200K there is still plenty of saving left after the purchase costs. Buying locally eliminates most of these costs.
Buying second-hand, VAT free, was an adventure and at times I felt completely powerless in the face of the bureaucracy involved, especially the re-registration and export part - so much so that I ended up with a "fixer" who assisted on the day of export - at a cost of €300 cash if my memory serves me right. And then there is the 180 day TA rules and the 90/180 Schengen rules to contend with - I'm glad I no longer have to plan in the "export days" required to reset the TA clock.