Boating and Brexit.

[Portofino]

New thread title in 2025 .
VAT on Med based boats ?

Can anyone tell what is was ?


Or “ our summer cruise to N Africa “ .
Or “ February 1/2 T trip to N Africa for winter sun “
Or “ New fish and chip shops opening up in Tunisia “
Or “ cruising guide to Turkey out of print “

 

[MapisM]

Agree, and wouldn’t the buyer have to arrange retesting for CE mark ?

I can't think of any reason why a boat originally CE certified should be certified again upon re-import.
I mean, assuming that the builder's DoC, together with a copy of the model certification issued by a CE certification institute, are still available, that should still be valid because there's no expiration date for it.
It's only the "VAT paid" status (which isn't a formally correct expression, but gives the idea, for lack of better wording) that is lost upon export outside the EC. But that's an administrative issue, not a technical one.

 

[MapisM]

That warm in the belly feeling you have legally avoided EU tax in the EU , while your Italian , French , Spanish neighbours in the very same Marina on possibly the exact same boat model are forced to stump up .

Bet that feels great tbh . .Always nice to have the last laugh .

If that's what you call a "last laugh" on Brexit, you must be a kind of guy who is content with a little, I reckon.

 

[Tranona]

I can't think of any reason why a boat originally CE certified should be certified again upon re-import.
I mean, assuming that the builder's DoC, together with a copy of the model certification issued by a CE certification institute, are still available, that should still be valid because there's no expiration date for that.
It's only the "VAT paid" status (which isn't a formally correct expression, but gives the idea, for lack of better wording) that is lost upon export outside the EC.
But that's an administrative issue, not a technical one.

Because that is what the UK government and Brussels have decided for boats moving either way. Even though the new UK Certification requirements are currently the same. The process for a CE certified boat is quicker and cheaper, but still costs. Does not come into full effect until next year. No doubt in time builders will certify new boats in line with country of destination.

 

[MapisM]

Because that is what the UK government and Brussels have decided for boats moving either way.

Interesting, I was totally unaware of that. Sounds completely silly, but... Hey-ho!
At the end of the day, it's pointless to blame politicians for being silly - we just get what we deserve, I reckon.

 

[cherod]

only ,, coming from Scotland , we get what you deserve .

 

[Hurricane]

If you can bring an invoice documenting the details - e.g. purchased in the UK et al

I doubt any customs officer would be able to tell if the goods in question are identical to those on the invoice though.
Documentation handy also if bringing the goods back some day.

So, how/where do you draw the lines.
I took loads of stuff out to Spain with me.
One item was a 45 year old crow bar - how is that handled? - I assume that it attracts VAT.
There ought to be some ruling - for example if the goods are more than 6 months old, they should not attract VAT - but that would be the sensible approach.
And if you then assume that you have to pay VAT, what is the process and how it it all calculated.
There is loads of information on goods to be sold but nothing for personal items.
Apart from silly exemptions like the UK allowances of goods into the UK (£390 or £270 if arriving by private boat).
Most iPhones are worth more than that!!!
There is something very morally wrong charging people tax more than once for the same product.
So it is refreshing to see that some countries are using their "common sense".

 

[Bouba]

Paying tax on tax is nothing new to government. There is tax on fuel, you then pay vat on the tax, which you buy with money you’ve already paid tax on......

 

[Hurricane]

Paying tax on tax is nothing new to government. There is tax on fuel, you then pay vat on the tax, which you buy with money you’ve already paid tax on......

Yes, but not the same tax many times over.

 

[oldgit]

Astonished any serious buyer would not be aware of that before committing to buying a boat in the EU for export to Ireland.

As a time buyer and first time owner of any boat why of earth would they even be aware ?
Had the pleasure of meeting the " prospective" new owner who had flown over from Eire to view the boat at Windsor.
A few months ago you paid your money and your boat turned up, from Dublin to Sofia. It is of course so much simpler now.
No boat for one citizen and lost sale for another.

The broker however certainly should have been up to speed ? and has just waved goodbye to about £5K comission .

 

[kashurst]

Interesting, I was totally unaware of that. Sounds completely silly, but... Hey-ho!
At the end of the day, it's pointless to blame politicians for being silly - we just get what we deserve, I reckon.

"If there is an idiot in power, it means those who elected him are well represented." -Mahatma Gandhi

 

[kashurst]

1- Wonder how many Brits buying new from Cannes / Genoa and opting for Med based are ever gonna pay VAT ( or what ever the EU call it ) again ?
2- Choose the Marina location carefully ?

That’s a massive hundreds of thousands of pounds benefit .Yummy yummy guys !

Further down the line at off load time how attractive theses boats will be on the used market at seemingly 20 % less than the like for like for the next Brit on the Med / boat escalator behind .

That warm in the belly feeling you have legally avoided EU tax in the EU , while your Italian , French , Spanish neighbours in the very same Marina on possibly the exact same boat model are forced to stump up .

Bet that feels great tbh . .Always nice to have the last laugh .

Lots of boat here in Spain on the 6th list - no VAT paid.............

 

[oldgit]

Rodman 41 in Spain £160.000.
Shafts of course.
Would that mean extra 20% ie.£32 K on top at Dover ?

 

[kashurst]

Rodman 41 in Spain £160.000.
Shafts of course.
Would that mean extra 20% ie.£32 K on top at Dover ?

Yes, plus shipping costs. I think the UK vat is only charged on the boat, not the boat + shipping.
You could import a non-VAT paid boat, then pay UK VAT and maybe get a bit of a bargain that way.

 

[DavidJ]

Re taking my £1500 covers to Spain (via France) by car.
They do need fitting of course. If I said I was taking them to the boat to mark the fitting points and bring back for popper fixing, do you think I would be believed?
Am I overthinking this? I wake up fretting about it.

 

[Momac]

If , for example, the Rodman is worth £160 perhaps the vendor gets £133 and the VAT man gets £26 (or whatever it works out at exactly) .
The vendor might not be happy with that of course .

It doesn't seem fair that vat has to be paid again nor does it seem right that any new boat should be vat free but regulations/ laws are often not fair.

 

[kashurst]

Re taking my £1500 covers to Spain (via France) by car.
They do need fitting of course. If I said I was taking them to the boat to mark the fitting points and bring back for popper fixing, do you think I would be believed?
Am I overthinking this? I wake up fretting about it.

We drove/ferry to Spain last week. We were worried about importing dog food and some boaty bits (new nav lights).
Nobody was interested in looking in the boot at any point. Nobody asked anything at all.
I think you will be fine. If the items are already paid for and for your own personal use I don't think customs will be interested. Bringing a load of alcohol or stuff that is obviously going to be sold on is a different matter.

 

[Hurricane]

Re taking my £1500 covers to Spain (via France) by car.
They do need fitting of course. If I said I was taking them to the boat to mark the fitting points and bring back for popper fixing, do you think I would be believed?
Am I overthinking this? I wake up fretting about it.

Yep you are overthinking.
But I know what you mean - waking up worrying about it.
Just remember that I was towing our "Donkey Box" full of tools and materials to replace our teak decks!!
As kashurst says, I don't think they are interested in the likes of us.
Indeed, I think they want us over there to spend our money.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

The EU Commission website is based on a directive and a regulation which explicitly excludes personal effects. Thus, article 7(4) of directive 2007/74/EC (this covers VAT) reads:

The value of the personal luggage of a traveller, which is imported temporarily or is re-imported following its temporary export, and the value of medicinal products required to meet the personal needs of a traveller shall not be taken into consideration for the purposes of applying the exemptions referred to in paragraphs 1 and 2.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2007:346:0006:0012:EN:PDF

Article 41 of regulation 1186/2009 (which covers custom duties) refers back to the VAT exemption.

Goods contained in travellers’ personal luggage

Article 41

Goods contained in the personal luggage of travellers coming from a third country shall be admitted free of import duties, provided such imports are exempt from value added tax (VAT) under provisions of national law adopted in accordance with the provisions of Council Directive 2007/74/EC of 20 December 2007 on the exemption from value added tax and excise duty of goods imported by persons travelling from third countries ( 1) OJ L 346, 29.12.2007, p. 6. (1).

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:324:0023:0057:EN:PDF

I don't know whether there is a more specific definition somewhere (e.g. a time threshold) or if this is left for national customs administration and individual customs officer to appreciate but the most important criteria here is that the import is temporary. If the things you carry are deemed to be part of your personal luggage and you will take them back out, the €430 threshold isn't relevant at all.

Incidentally, this is not an exemption for non-residents, residents are also allowed to take their stuff abroad and to re enter without paying duties and non-residents are not allowed to enter with expensive things they intend to give as gift. What matters is that you are going in and out, without transferring your residence or leaving your gear behind you (there is a whole lot of other rules regarding that situation in article 3 to 11 of the regulation and national law and even special rules for gifts related to a marriage!).

 

[Portofino]

Technically they do have a list of the limits of stuff that can be imported by 3 P s .
How ever as mentioned wether the Spaniards can be bothered to apply it is a another matter .

The Swiss do .
Meat , booze and high end electrical appliances are far cheaper over the border(s) .
They regularly pull you up and start by asking you .
They regularly pull up cars and boot searches .
Some pull up themselves and legitimately walk in to the office papers ( invoices in hand ) and pay the import duties , get a receipt etc .
We are pretty careful not to fall foul .
I think a few friends have been caught out as well as the piffling extra duty on those two creates of wine they slap a 200 CHF fine on you as well .Plus you are on there system for the wrong reasons now .

Been asked recently crossing from Geneva to France “ thats a nice watch sir “ “ how much cash have you got “ ?
When going for my wallet - “ no sir I mean in the trunk “ .
Answer “ None officer “
They then ask to open the boot .

Having said that we have used relocation movers and brand new stuff does attract a tariff so they need the bill / invoice with them in the vehicle .It’s better to base the calcs on the actual bill you have .If not you get a rough + ready usually larger amount + as I said a fine on top for trying to avoid it .They consider the lack of the bos as a avoidance trick .

So take the original bill in case you are stopped and challenged.

Another neat trick (allegedly of course ) is to bury your new gear in a part load of obviously used gear .
Say a removal van or what ever ,Driver turns up , they ask , he says a van load of second hand used stuff , they open a door and see just that .You brand new is deep in the middle and after a few cursory things are easily removed which adds up story wise they wave you on .

Having said all this we know where all the unmanned borders are , but theses are not open ( snow ) in the winter.

There might be similar passes over the Pyrenees ??

My advice would be have the original bos handy …..just in case . But you will be fined as well - so i am reliably informed.