Boat type for Thames and Sea - Possible?

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AlastairH

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Hi All,

My first post here after reading much interesting and helpful advice throughout the forums. I am from Sydney where I am used to sailing twin hulls in deep blue sea, beneath sunny skies. For some reason i have now chosen to live in London, on the Thames and looking for a motor boat. I have no idea where to start with these craft and would welcome some sage advice. I have listed below some of the main factors that may help with some feedback:

-budget £70,000 (ideally)
-will be lived on for 4 nights a week so ample saloon space and sleeping for 4+
-to be moored at Imperial Wharf in a 15 metre berth
-hope to go East and West up the Thames twice a month
-hope to be able to go out to sea, down to Eastbourne and maybe across to Holland - realistically only three times a year
-not a major draw on maintance as i travel a lot so i do not want to neglect it, therefore not wood etc
-length between 11 and 14 metres feels right from ones i have seen, and for handling solo.

There is a lot of debate on hull profile. Displacement is out as it will have some sea faring, but would a large engined planing hull be ok pottering along the Thames with the low speed limit? What type and size of engine(s) are going to be a balance between a majority of Thames work with some sea?

I would have thought an SD hull best unless a 40ft+ planing is ok for the Thames, or two boats....:confused:

I have looked at Princess 415's and so far they feel close to the mark. But then what do i know!

I hope that all makes sense and welcome any examples as i need to get on with this asap.

Many thanks indeed.

Alastair
 
the boat that jumps out for your purposes is - Broom or similar - great on the river and a great seaboat for the cold, often sunless UK sea. Well protected helm and a great reputation. Depending on the model there may be a shallow keel to protect the props - If you go river/estuary cruising you are certain to go aground at some point. Good spacious aft cabin so plenty of room as a frequent live aboard. Also have a look at Birchwood TS37 (with a good engine history) Fairline Turbo 36, Sealine 390/410 (might be a bit too much) princess 414,

have a look here, give you an idea of what you can get for your money
http://www.thamesboatsales.co.uk/boats-for-sale/
 
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kashurst said:
the boat that jumps out for your purposes is - Broom or similar - great on the river and a great seaboat for the cold, often sunless UK sea. Well protected helm and a great reputation. Depending on the model there may be a shallow keel to protect the props - If you go river/estuary cruising you are certain to go aground at some point. Good spacious aft cabin so plenty of room as a frequent live aboard. Also have a look at Birchwood TS37 (with a good engine history) Fairline Turbo 36, Sealine 390/410 (might be a bit too much) princess 414,

have a look here, give you an idea of what you can get for your money
http://www.thamesboatsales.co.uk/boats-for-sale/
Click to expand...

Good choices - I would add Atlantic 38 to that list. Our own did the length of the Thames to Oxford and seaward to Greece and handled both with ease.
The s/d aft cabin format described by kashurst is ideal for the mix of use you envisage, but they do come at a premium and you might struggle budget wise unless you go older - but then maintenance issues will arise.
 
+1 for aft cabin such as Broom, Atlantic, Haines etc.

Good living accommodation, many have semi-displacement hulls so good handling at sea and on the river. Something like a Broom Crown would be around your budget but as older boats look for a good one, particularly mechanically.
 
Needs to be semi- displacement imho
Needs to have good deck access
Needs to have wide as poss side decks
Needs must for single handing
Needs to have no flybridge?
I dunno the Thames at all (cept the bit by 'Traitors Gate' etc) but if yer goes upstream der get bother with Bridges?
I would look at a Corvette 32 but on 'The Budget' yerd only get an awld un
Maybe a trip to Holland to look at a hollandays kinda vessel that will make 12 kts ?
Peeps know I am a Nimbus fan having had one
Take a butchers at those, they wear well an and old un might do
 
Thank you for the great suggestions. Does that mean the princess 415 is totally unsuitable? For the proposed budget there seemed to be more for the money than Broom, although it is a great brand so build quality and reputation for ,broom is good. The river part of my travels will only be Thames and probably as far as Richmond.

I have not heard of the Atlantic so will search. I thought the birchwood would be rather like the 415. It will be stayed on far more than moved unfortunately.. Cheers
 
I think the 415 is a great boat but for living on you might find an aft cabin boat to be a better proposition. Turbo 36 would be a good bet, as would a Broom.
 
Welcome to cold, wet and windy Britain. Sydney is one of my favorite cities, send probably the bet natural harbour I have seen so far. A planing boat is ok on the river, despite what some folk say. It may not be quite as good as a D or SD, but perfectly ok to helm and moor. Decent side decks are handy for mooring duties. An aft cabin is nice, but can get in the way of mooring duties. There are always compromises with boats :)

Thoughts and prayers are with Sydney folk today, given the recent brutality.
 
AlastairH said:
Hi All,

My first post here after reading much interesting and helpful advice throughout the forums. I am from Sydney where I am used to sailing twin hulls in deep blue sea, beneath sunny skies. For some reason i have now chosen to live in London, on the Thames and looking for a motor boat. I have no idea where to start with these craft and would welcome some sage advice. I have listed below some of the main factors that may help with some feedback:

-budget £70,000 (ideally)
-will be lived on for 4 nights a week so ample saloon space and sleeping for 4+
-to be moored at Imperial Wharf in a 15 metre berth
-hope to go East and West up the Thames twice a month
-hope to be able to go out to sea, down to Eastbourne and maybe across to Holland - realistically only three times a year
-not a major draw on maintance as i travel a lot so i do not want to neglect it, therefore not wood etc
-length between 11 and 14 metres feels right from ones i have seen, and for handling solo.

There is a lot of debate on hull profile. Displacement is out as it will have some sea faring, but would a large engined planing hull be ok pottering along the Thames with the low speed limit? What type and size of engine(s) are going to be a balance between a majority of Thames work with some sea?

I would have thought an SD hull best unless a 40ft+ planing is ok for the Thames, or two boats....:confused:

I have looked at Princess 415's and so far they feel close to the mark. But then what do i know!

I hope that all makes sense and welcome any examples as i need to get on with this asap.

Many thanks indeed.

Alastair
Click to expand...

There is a Princes 410 for sale through Ancasta at Port Hamble, been for sale a while and has been rejected a few times due to a serious hull repair however it's been carried out professionally and I can vouch owning a 410 for 5 plus years they are an excellent boat from many angles, I too live on a boat midweek two nights a week so there ample size for a couple of people to live on, great looking boat for its age and interior fit out great quality for its era if build , it may also come in well under your budget as this boat has been discussed recently with friends and colleagues . Speak to Alex at Port hamble office , tell him I've mentioned this boat to you. If your interested I can answer anything on this model you need to know.
 
415 would be ok but fly bridges are a bit awkward for locks, aft cabin with helm position above is much better. But a 415 can be had very cheap, know of one that had spent 20 years on the river and sold for 45k, now ploughing up the East coast.
 
Rafiki - yes not a great day back home. know that cafe well...
Sydney is gorgeous but Auckland is a rival, and the bit in the middle...windy!
Yes compromises seem to be the order of the day. I have looked at the great suggestions - airline 36, atlantic 38, Sealine - but they are knocking around higher than my attempted firm budget. And the Brooms seem to really hold value, but for my budget end they just seem too old and i am not an expert in these boats to give the tlc and skill required.
The 410s look great, beyond budget but if they are better for my needs than the 415, then maybe some haggling can result in something. Plenty to look at and ponder!!! Thanks
 
Chris d- the air draft is apparently ok for even hammersmith bridge, although i need to check that if going that path, and they do seem to be good value for money when right. So you say they can be on the Thames for occasional pottering to see the sights, and then out to sea? It is unlikely i will ever get the time for heading as far as locks as i am rarely going to have enough time.. The master that is work.. a
 
Not sure if you are familiar with navigation on the Thames but between central London (where there are only a very small number of marinas with tidal lock access) and Teddington Lock, where the non-tidal Thames starts, there are virtually no places to moor. The same can be said for heading downstream, with virtually nothing between London and the Medway.

If you want to use the boat then you would be missing a trick by not going beyond Teddington. I would also advise against a flybridge if single handing because getting around the boat from the helm just won't be as easy as it would from an aft cabin boat.

If you are thinking that a Princess 410 or 415 is a consideration then look at a Broom Crown. Sure they are older, but if you find a decent one it is unlikely to present much more in the way of problems than a younger boat. Apollo, who posts on the Thames forum and sometimes on here, has one and would be a good source of information.
 
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Alastair,welcome to the Forum. Your price range should get you a half decent (if somewhat mature :)) boat. Both Broom and Princess are regarded as good quality marques in UK. Personally I would be looking at a Broom for the twin functions you are expecting your boat to perform. The 415 will carry out the roles you require however.
The downside to buying a boat is finding a decent one that will not cost you money in the long run..
The damp UK climate can play havoc with boat internals compared to warmer climes.

The UK is awash with mid sized boats purchased when fuel was cheaper than water, they moulder unloved and inactive in marinas and boatyards around the country. The owners reluctant to spend any money on vital preventative maintance and unable or unwilling to use the boat due to fuel costs. The boats go into a slow decline with possible major expence waiting for any new unwary new owner.
Get your boat checked out by people who know what they are looking at. There is a boat on the market at the moment,a main selling point appears to be the £12,000 pounds it cost to get one of the engines into a sellable condition.
Some of the boats you will be looking at have been up for sale for years due to owners being unable or unwilling to accept the market for heavy,fuel thirsty 40ft boats has crumbled to nothing and that people who can afford to run these fuel guzzlers will be well able to afford a much newer boat.
Am looking myself at the moment in this boat bracket,provided you take care you can get a lot of boat for your money at the moment. Expect to bid at least 25% below asking. :)
Ps.Boats for sale in Thames marinas do tend to demand a unwarranted premium over those for sale elsewhere, bear this in mind if you bid on any Thames based boat.
 
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Oldgit - thank you for your rounded advice. I am certainly going to have a survey of engines and boat done and if any work is required, have this completed before getting in situ. The Thames boats do have a premium as you say and for me, i need something in January and i understand the locks are shut until feb. I have looked at the yards in the West and nothing jumps out, with some looking, as you say, having been up for sale for a while. Over in the East it seems better value of money and more accessible into London for my time window.

I am not sure on fuel consumption with motors - i like the free wind - but it seems to be a trade off of factors from speed, engine size and type of hull. All of which i think is getting too technical for me.

The Broom seems to be mentioned favourably, and i looked at the Broom yard in Norfolk the other day. Great boats, but getting towards six figures for anything i felt i could stay on for a while. And that is the thing, trading off multiple requirements on a set budget. It is obviously the same as sail boats - you always want the next and better boat!

I will have another look for some Broom options and report back..

Thanks again.
 
Alastair, did you pop into NYA when you were in Brundle? They give void advice and sensible pricing. Have you also looked at Boats.co.uk? Used to be called EBY. They have a great rep for brokerage boats, again sensible pricing and great aftersales.
 
I suspect anything GRP will slowly get smashed to death at Imperial Wharf!

It gets very very choppy once the big boats/idiots/Police Targas start thrashing by....

Thats why I said No!!
 
I have been to NYA and they have been very helpful.

No regrets - i will certainly be making sure there is ample protection on the pontoon side!

I have come across, although out of budget but it seems i have to go that way, some 41+2 Traders. They have great living areas with the aft cabin as recommended and an SD hull to help with Thames and coast. Knocking around £90ish, how do they rate against the revered Brooms of similar price? The Broom yard has a few used examples.
thanks Alastair
 
I know of two Broom Crowns being lived on very comfortably.one a single guy,one a retired couple.Both very happy.
Trader 41+2, bit more to maintain,lots of wood,check the teak decks thoroughly and then check them again even more thoroughly!
Might be a bit high sided for getting on and off bouncing around at imperial wharf.lovely boats though.
And at s/d speeds they burn a lot of fuel,heavy old beasts,and if only ford 120hp they are not quick.
 
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