Boat Tests - are we being served ....

[Guest]

Why do we rarely see tests of the boats that most people buy?

ie the sub 100k end of the market (the likes of Bayliner etc)

It would be nice to have some guidance before spending what to most people is a great deal of money.

Geoff

 

[whisper]

Agreed, there is I believe a large demand for more regular tests in the £30-75K price range both new and second hand. Hopefully MBM will concentrate more on such boats. Very rarely are people able to afford "starter boats" that cost 75K plus, well not in the poor depressed and depressing E.Midlands anyway. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

 

[tr7v8]

Judging by the boats being sold out of the various brokerages I suspect the real starter bracket is sub £ 25K. I think that the area people need info on is what to expect on a boat that's say 10-15 years old. And what problems to expect. Spoken from experience on the Draco, luckily it doesn't frighten me but some people I talk to glaze over when you start to explain what I've been through!

Jim
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[Renegade_Master]

Good job yoose andy with a spanner Jim

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.suncoastmarine.co.uk>Sun Coast Sea School & Charter</A>

 

[tr7v8]

Could do without the aggro to be honest, but I've seen several boats sold from Gillingham an other locations locally in the last 2-3 months and they've all been pretty static so will probably have similar problems & I suspect the owners could be a tad naive as to any potential problems. Think about the older generation of boats that are still afloat now, unlike the wooden boats of 20 years ago....
I was brought up in an environment where if I didn't fix the car, bike etc no one would and couldn't afford to pay someone. I see even youngsters these days who know nothing about the mechanics and throw money at a garage when it breaks.
Don't know what a souther marine engineers charge but it ain't gonna be cheap.
I think that some of these issues could be covered by the boat mags.

Jim
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[oldgit]

When buying my most recent boats,no decent reviews available for anything I would have been interested in buying ,except for twenty year old reprints,published when the boats were virtually new.Obviously more MBM than MBY but a decent once over of any popular boats that peeps with "actually work for a living" incomes would buy.My only usefull source of info was a little book published years ago and this forum.So why no recent onceovers on Fairline/princess/broom/colvic etc with a page or two on watch for corrosion here or carefull of shagged out thinges there maybe.And how about a two page spread not just half a column tuck away behind the chart update.

Oooh look its still not dark and its nearly 5pm

 

[Blue_Blazes]

Quite agree Git, or is it Mr Git? Some of the "Pride & Joy" series have been very informative, particularly where owners have had to do quite a lot to bring their older boats up to scratch, but because the subject of the article is one particular example it does not neccesarily follow that the problems faced by that owner are typical of the marque. Perhaps a series where the magazine examine and sea trial 3 or 4 examples of a particular model offered for sale would be useful. Not only would it give some indication of likely problems, it would probably frighten the pants off some of the less scrupulous brokers!

 

[spannerman]

If its a Bayliner you want to know about just ask away as I have had one for 6 years and have worked on every model up to their 3055 and try me especially if its a Scandinavian boat.
regards Steve

 

[kimhollamby]

Have you checked the MBM index?

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw-directory.com/reprints/search.jsp?tem=mbm>http://www.ybw-directory.com/reprints/search.jsp?tem=mbm</A>

The book that was referred to in this thread is, I suspect, 25 years of motor cruisers which in turn was a compilation of articles published in the early 1990s - one of the first series I commissioned as MBM editor.

Once Alex (McMullen) completed that, I then asked his to revisit many of the boats in more detail, including surveyors' comments. Think we covered about 80 or more of them in circa five-page features for all of back-end of 1990s. Jake also had a parallel series looking at secondhand craft from an owner's perspective.

Now I believe that Alex has started a new series covering around four boats at a time.

There's always room for improvement but perhaps there's a bit more info out there than might be realised.

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[whisper]

Re: Have you checked the MBM index?

<around four boats at a time>
Yes, I had looked forward to this series until I found that there was just a page on each, and that included a couple of photos and a sketch or two. There was by necessity therefore not much substance to the narrative. It is a start though.

 

[kimhollamby]

Re: Have you checked the MBM index?

It was, I suspect, planned to address criticism that MBM was previously only covering 1-2 secondhand boats per issue during my time as editor. On the other hand those features had quite a bit more detail because they could have more space. Most of the comments published are relevant still, so if you missed the original features the index at least gives an idea of what has been covered in the past few years.

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[hlb]

Re: Have you checked the MBM index?

Foul or maybe Fowel. That only directs us to files that we have to pay for. Be fore we know if it's any good. Migfht cost umpteen £15 quids before we get the answer we are looking for. On Your Bike......!!!

<font color=blue> Haydn

 

[coliholic]

Why don't they test older secondhand boats? Well there's no advertising mileage in it for them is there? After all if they test a nice new, or nearly new boat from say Sunseeker\Fairline\Sealine\Jeanneau et al and there just happens to be a two or three page ad from the same manufacturer in the same edition, well Kim and Tom will tell us that's all coincidence and editorial is not affected by advertising, but then they would say that wouldn't they? And I for one believe them. Well maybe not. Have done this a couple of times myself in other business areas. I agree to take a two page ad spread in a magazine and in return they run a nice editorial on my business - but that doesn't happen in the boating world though?

Also of course have you ever seen a test of any currently active boat builder that says "this five\ten year old model is a pile of crap, or badly built, or handles badly or got dodgy engines" etc? Same reason really, they're not going to upset their current advertisers are they? Might get a more critical appraisal though of a builder that's no longer in business, 'cos they can't be hurt by pulling their ad's can they.

And why don't they test the more esoteric makes that don't advertise with them? Err let me guess.........


Cynical? Moi? Nah realist.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Hoarder

If like me you've not thrown a single issue away since about 1987 then you'd have;

1] all the articles anyway

2] a house full of old mags and no room to live! ;-))

 

[hlb]

Re: Hoarder

unfortunatly John. I have now thown all old coppies away. I did keep them for 6 or seven years. Till The shelf got to full. I am now Mag Less. And subscription less. Can any one help!!

<font color=blue> Haydn

 

[coliholic]

Re: Hoarder

I'm willing to sell you my collection of MBM and MBY from 1995 to 2000 for only half price. How's that for a good offer H? And 'cos it's you, I'll throw in 6 years of PBO's FREE. Need to keep the more up to date ones though, not finished reading them yet.

 

[kimhollamby]

Not fair really; I haven't checked MBM recently but in my time there the balance was always circa 12 pages new boats and around 10 pages older boats. There were quite a few one-offs among the longer production run types. I'm not sure what the norm will be for 2003 - a new editor due soon so he'll be able to tell you himself in a couple of months or so.

Testing secondhand boats does have one distinct problem; namely getting hold of them. As explained before (and at risk of not being believed as before) owners are understandably aware of the rapid devaluation that might follow a damning report, so they are not always that honest about all of the issues. Also the desire to volunteer craft is sometimes in direct proportion to the desire to sell which can lead to further conflict of interest.

That's why, in Popular Cruisers, we used more general surveyors' comments regarding general tendencies which seemed to work quite well.

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[kimhollamby]

Hah!

On yer bike too Haydn /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

See we cannot win, can we?

Magazines repeat same subjects often = readers say we've gone stale
Magazines make indexes available to show what has already been printed = we're trying to rip you off.

Mind you, if you think we should be charging £15 for each article copy I'll put your suggestion forward...

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[hlb]

Yes kim. I would like a P35 mag. One that said. If you cant steer that, you need a hole in the head. If it's rough, slow down a bit and carry on. Heres a list of alternate V*** parts. Oil fillters from **** new gear boxes from **** quarter the price. You mean you want a bow thruster. Or a doctor!!!! My two quid is waiting for your colection!!!

<font color=blue> Haydn

 

[hlb]

Re: Hah!

How come you rit that before I rit whot I was saying. Are you Yury geller. Tutts is going to see him next week. Shall I ask her to ask him questions???

<font color=blue> Haydn