Boat share - what does the forum think?

[mjkinch1]

I was wondering what the forum thinks of boat share? Having sold our boat, and taken a bit of a gap, I was looking at a boat share option in the Med.

My reasons are;

1. I probably never used my boat for more than 6-8 weeks a year.
2. I can get a better and newer boat than I could afford if I owned it outright
3. All costs are shared

The downsides will be probably getting used to sharing a boat, and not having our things on it, but I am sure there are other things I have not thought of.

What's the general view of the forum, and anyone who has or currently is in a boat share scheme? Also is there anything I have to be aware off in relation to ownership rights?

Thanks

Martyn

 

[jfm]

I have done this before with two boats, though not now. I think it's a great idea if you get the right mix of personalities, and that's the hard bit, but worth doing if you can

The ownership and legal paperwork is easy, well trodden path, and i wouldn't worry about that till the time comes. I'll happily send you precedents in Word format if you need them. There's an RYA precedent though it is a bit clumsy imho

In about 4 years of doing this (always 3 sharers) we never had any arguments or resorted to the legal docs. The reason was, everyone behaved completely reasonably and honestly. If you fine easygoing laid back peple it will be fine. If you partner up with someone who wants 3 quotes for a supply of toilet rolls you'll hate it

My next door but one neightbour in Antibes does it, now on second boat (Targa 52) and it works fine for him

There are loads of success stories and loads of disaster stories. It would be wrong to extrapolate either direction. If someone says "it worked for me" it doesn't mean it will work for you. And if someone says "It was bad for me" that doesn't mean it will be bad for you. If you avoid the things that cause it to go bad, it will go well, and that's the trick.

Financially, it makes lots of sense of course.

Personally, I'd only do it privately with 50/50 or 1/3rd shares. I would avoid the companies that manage these schemes becuase that introduces a 3rd party who has different interests from the boat sharers and it makes you and your partners (imho) too many steps removed from ownership and control of the boat

 

[Resolution]

As usual you are spot on with your comments.
I would just add two points:
1. Make sure each partner can afford the costs comfortably. Financial stresses ruin the fun.
2. Boat share schemes seldom seem to last for more than a few years before dying painfully. Maybe the current crop of new schemes will be longer-lived, but I doubt it. Why not just charter instead?

 

[jfm]

Yeah I'd agree that. Make sure the partners are sharing not becuase they can only just afford the share, but becuase they just happen to think sharing is sensible. They need to have some spending power in reserve, cos it is a nightmare if a repair or upgrade is needed/desireable and one partner can't afford his share.

Another good feature along those lines is if one partner (at least) can easily afford the whole boat. Then if a partner gets into some difficulty they can just be bought out at a fair price with no fuss

The more chilled the partners are about money, the better. TCM and I extolled the "drink test" on here relating to that, some years ago. Another test is "how big would an error on your bank statement have to be for you to notice?". The answer varies by boat but I'd think the £number needs a comma in it (only one!) for a 40footer

I completely agree your point 2! Commercially run "partnerships" just seem a bad idea to me

 

[mjkinch1]

Thanks JFM and Innesker . I looked a scheme run by Eden Bridge in Pollensa, but it is a group of strangers and generally a fifth share, and a sixth share that goes to charter.

I think you are right about finding a couple of people that are like minded, I am pretty relaxed in my approach to boating, but at the same time make sure everything is always in tip top condition, so a couple like minded people would work.

Your comments on ongoing costs is spot on as well, we ran a Phantom 38 for 3 years so I figure it cant be more than the annual cost of that, given you then have 2 or 3 people to share the costs with.

I also have seen some shares for boats that are 3 or 4 years old, and my first thought is that maintenance may start to get expensive, so I was thinking of a new or nearly new boat, so ongoing costs should be reasonable.

I guess its now looking for like minded people, a half or third boat share would be perfect, as it gives plenty of time on board in a year, and with no young kids, dates are not an issue.

 

[Whitelighter]

I think its a bloody good idea, and one I hopefully am about to try myself...

 

[SumWaves]

I had a 1/12th share in a Stevens 37ft Thames Boat with Challenger Sydicateships about 10 years ago
It all sounded great in theory but in practice was a nightmare as their was 12 different ideas as to how the Boat was run
Lukily I had an agreement with Challenger to exit the share after 5 years which I duly did
I have now discovered only this week that Challenger went into liquidation in January this year operating 27 Boats with a possible debts of around 2.5 mil
Their is some very interesting reading on Challenger on YBW
Yes I do agree however that 50/50 of 1/3rd is best no more and you have to get on

 

[Whitelighter]

I think a boat share works if you have two like minded people/couples and share the boats that way. I dont think the syndicate system offers good value for money.

The way I see it, with a joint purchase, you get to 1/2 all the costs and probably use the boat just as much.

Worked for my parents for over 20 years, plus you get a much bigger/nicer boat than you could on your own, or the same boat for significantly less and still enjoy pride of ownership.

 

[dkm]

I've shared a couple of times (1/3rd share) and always found it to work. Totally agree that the basis of a sound partnership is like minded, financially similar sharers. Currently own 100% of my Targa 34 but considering opening up to 1 or two others

 

[jfm]

You mention a good point there dkm about "opening up". Yes, it isn't necessary for the syndicate to be formed and then the boat purchased. I have come across 2 cases where a chap owned 100% of a boat and later sold shares. My next-but-1 neighbour in Antibes just bought a 50% share in a Targa52 from a 100% owner on that basis, for example.

So yeah, anyone currently owning 100% could go into sharing by offering 1/2 or 1/3 for sale

 

[mjf]

Just to add more favourable comment - the bloke who moors his sailboat next to me has two others who share the boat.

Works very well with main owner using it for two weeks and the other guys a week each.

I think in the summer they all get to use it more than the 'alloted' days as it cruises off in Spring and comes back late summer.

All the owners are great peeps.

Only issue I see is having to take towels / sheets / tooth bushes and booze on-off each visit. Of course this can be handled differently if you want.

 

[whisper]

I've been in a 50:50 share arrangement for the last 3+years.
As far as we were both concerned it was the only way we could afford the boat we wanted.

So far has been great, especially as I seem to use it more than he does. It obviously helps being with a relatively laid-back partner.

The "arrangement" is very simple with just 3 or 4 clauses regarding shared and individual costs and what happens if one of us wants to get out.
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[mjkinch1]

Well theres a good suggestion from jfm, but if I 'buy' a 50% share in someone's existing boat,will it always be 'their' boat? Good idea though, its just finding the right people now!

 

[jfm]

[ QUOTE ]
if I 'buy' a 50% share in someone's existing boat,will it always be 'their' boat?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can see that worry, but in the 2 cases i know very close up, the selling owner has behaved perfectly and not treated it as his boat. In fact I think in a good partnership everyone treats it as "their" boat, in a nice way, not in a too-possessive way. Whereas I doubt in the commercial syndicates with say 10 owners anyone treats it lovingly as their boat

It all comes down to the personalities involved. You gotta choose the right partner, as you know and as all posters above have said. That's potentially hard work, or you could get lucky, but if you get it right the pay off is v big, so well worth making the effort imho

I fist joined a partnership just from a MBY classifed back in 1998 or 1999. An existing partnership (8 years old) was selling the boat to buy a new one and one partner was retiring, so they needed a new Mr 1/3. You'd think then i might have been the underdog. In fact the other two guys behaved aboslutely perfectly, complete gentlemen always, and it worked well for several years till we all decided to move on. So, my point is there are lots of nice people out there!

 

[mjkinch1]

Thanks JFM, will have a look at some ads and see what is available for the med!

 

[gandacle]

Hi All

A client of mine runs a slightly different sort of shared ownership scheme down in Banus.

More details can be found on www.blueheavenyachts.com. Having spoken to him at Southampton show plans are afoot to change one of the boats for something larger. Depending on your plans it may be worth having a chat with him.