Boat Share thoughts?

[Truro Ex Pat]

Hi Guys
I am considering a boat share 1/4 share with boat in Med.
Question is how do you value them?
I am looking at comparing 25% value with the value of a whole boat and just do the maths!

Eg £500k boat should be £125,000? Or am I missing something?

Thoughts and the good and the bad would be appreciated.
Its in the Med and I sold my boat last year and it seems best options as we only used 4 weeks a year before due to work etc so 4 weeks in summer would be fine.

 

[julians]

Its in the Med and I sold my boat last year and it seems best options as we only used 4 weeks a year before due to work etc so 4 weeks in summer would be fine.

presumably though, if you have a quarter share, you also get a quarter share of the time available, so a quarter of the summer?

 

[Chris.Moody]

I wonder if a quarter share in a boat is easier or harder to sell than a whole boat? The ease (or difficulty) in resale must have a bearing on the actual worth of the share, so I suspect it's not quite as simple as dividing by four.

 

[Whitelighter]

I think it depends what you get.

If you actually get 1/4 of the boat, noted on the Part 1 as 16/64th then I would say that 25% of the boats realistic value is fair.

I looked at this before buying Seralia and be careful, as quite a few syndicate companies actually sell you a share in a foreign company, and it is the company that own the boat. I felt very uncomfortable with this type of scheme and ultimately decided that it wasn't for me.

The other thing that put me off were the often very high maintenance charges for the boats. I looked at a Azimut 50 which was £75,000 to but a 1/4 share, the annual cost for each 1/4 was then estimated to be £1000/month.

£48,000 to run a 2006 50ft seemed very expensive.

Private boat shares where you own the boat and are in control of costs I think are good. Id happily be part of one but I never found the right combination of boat/people. I did think I might see if I could get a partner for Seralia once I had everything sorted as we will likely only use her 5/6 weeks a year

 

[jrudge]

Remember you are buying someone's share - so the transaction is between you and them. Just like anything else it is needs of the buyer and seller. So whilst the starting point is 1/4 of the value it really depends how keen the seller is.

I have never shared a boat ( I have looked at it ) but have shared a plane and that worked as the group was balanced in its use. For planes the value of a share starts at the proportion of a value but again is supply and demand.

Just meet the members and read the agreement!

 

[Tranona]

There are many different ways of sharing ownership and use of a boat. As already suggested if buying a share from an existing partner the price is subject to agreement between the two parties, although it may be subject to approval by the other members. The nature of the partnership agreement as a whole needs to be considered, not just the notional value of the boat. You are buying a share of the use as well as a share of the asset, but the only security is in the boat.

There are many other considerations in buying a share - where the boat is kept, who manages it, what usage you get, what the duties are of the members, what happens on dissolution, how major expenditure is determined etc - and most of all who the other members are and how their interests compare with yours.

There is some useful information on shared ownership on the RYA site which covers these types of issues and has a model contract that is a useful benchmark when buying into an existing syndicate, or indeed for setting one up.

 

[Truro Ex Pat]

Ok thanks I have looked into all the rules and although the costs are a little on the high side it does work well and you own 25% of the actual boat.
I think resale is a problem in future but then any boat to try and sell is always a problem in my view.
I have spoke with the broker and he tells me because of the time of year then they will not take offers making it a no go as the 25% is more expensive than if you were buying a 100% of a whole boat.

 

[Momac]

Can't imagine boat share working for me.
I expect there does have to be a healthy budget for maintenance. No one would be keen on DIY and you don't want to turn up for your week to find a boat with faults.
Perhaps chartering is better option - you are not then tied to one location or any particular boat ?

 

[Bigplumbs]

If you only want 4 weeks of a year is it not possible to hire/rent a boat for this period for less money than the boat share would cost or indeed less than the annual maintenance charge. I know you would not own an asset but also would not be liable for repair bills etc.

Dennis

 

[jrudge]

Ok thanks I have looked into all the rules and although the costs are a little on the high side it does work well and you own 25% of the actual boat.
I think resale is a problem in future but then any boat to try and sell is always a problem in my view.
I have spoke with the broker and he tells me because of the time of year then they will not take offers making it a no go as the 25% is more expensive than if you were buying a 100% of a whole boat.

I would take that with a pinch of salt and make an offer.

I am in the middle of a divorce and have recently looked at boat shares. There are several for sale in Mallorca. The one I looked at gives 1 week to each owner per month for 10 months of the year and you can then swap things about for longer holidays - clearly with agreement on all sides.

This has certain benefits ( you are gteed a week from Feb to Nov ) but leads to shorter holidays unless everyone agrees ( and they will probably have the same desire as well for a longer break).

I am most fortunate ( or not - take your pick) that i have plenty of time to spend on the boat so this does not quite work for me, however the prospect of bearing a quarter of the depreciation and a quarter of the costs ( which are usually a little higher as cleaning and so on are mostly contracted out) is pretty appealing to be honest.

When we had a plane all 3 of us had radically different usage patterns and never had a clash in 8 years ( which is astonishing!). To me this part is critical. If 2 are retired and 2 have kids perfect - for balancing use in and out of school holidays. If not then the whole thing breaks down as everyone will want to use it at a similar time. Without kids June, September, October are some of the best Mallorca months so everyone is happy!

Almost money regardless ( it is cheaper then owning a whole boat) the mutual usage patterns to me would be paramount and I would use that as a major guide.

Above suggested charter, but I suspect this would be far more costly. The ideal would be to borrow a forumites boat from time to time when it is doing nothing but this of course brings with it a host of issues - legal in terms of coding - as well as practical. This is a shame as it has the opportunity to be win win all round if there were a practical way of doing it which compensated the owner to a fair degree for a known user to use the boat, but did not go as far as open market charter to an unknown entity.

 

[petem]

Hi Guys
I am considering a boat share 1/4 share with boat in Med.
Question is how do you value them?
I am looking at comparing 25% value with the value of a whole boat and just do the maths!

Eg £500k boat should be £125,000? Or am I missing something?

Thoughts and the good and the bad would be appreciated.
Its in the Med and I sold my boat last year and it seems best options as we only used 4 weeks a year before due to work etc so 4 weeks in summer would be fine.

What sort of boats are you considering?

 

[jfm]

I shared (3-way) a phantom 42 1999-2003 then a Sq58 (initially 50-25-25 then I bought the two 25s a couple of years later) and it all worked really well. Pricing was always just the share % x the value of the boat. Our syndicate was private - no manager. Usage patterns were ok because only one had kids. We allocated the calendar 1 week each and fortnight blocks in summer, then we swapped them privately - the calendar allocation being just the base currency so to speak. shared bank account for kitty and all bills. spreadsheet to share fuel cost. You need easy going nice people - that is more critical than anything, and more critical than a legal agreement imho. I would only do it on that footing, not with a professional manager, though I admit I got lucky finding 2 nice guys to share with.It's a great system imho.
If you were to have an arrangement privately to use someone else's boat the coding thing can be got around.

 

[petem]

As somone who woukd be on a budget, I think I'd consider it in a very small syndicate 2 or 3 people. I'm no longer tied to school hols and realistically one week in three would be adequate for me. 40 Phantom or Az39 in Mallorca would be ideal.

 

[jrudge]

we are about 15 feet apart !

 

[Truro Ex Pat]

Its a Fairline 58 Sq.
The problem is over price,
I am being told that the cheapest whole boat is around £550,000 as the cheaper boat that was £500 has sold.

At 25% this makes it £137,500 which should be asking price, my thoughts are sensible offer is £110,000?
Problem is asking £175K so my sensible offer is a lot less!

 

[jfm]

Its a Fairline 58 Sq.
The problem is over price,
I am being told that the cheapest whole boat is around £550,000 as the cheaper boat that was £500 has sold.

At 25% this makes it £137,500 which should be asking price, my thoughts are sensible offer is £110,000?
Problem is asking £175K so my sensible offer is a lot less!

What year/spec/VAT status? £550k is very punchy now for a Sq58. My old one, one of the last few made, 2009, and the highest spec every by far, sold recently for 475k VAT paid. anything above 400k is getting pretty punchy now for a Sq58. Great great boat though

Asking 175 is crazy. They will never sell for that. 110k might be ok, depending on year/spec. Tell us the details of the boat

 

[Nick_H]

What year/spec/VAT status? £550k is very punchy now for a Sq58. My old one, one of the last few made, 2009, and the highest spec every by far, sold recently for 475k VAT paid. anything above 400k is getting pretty punchy now for a Sq58. Great great boat though

Asking 175 is crazy. They will never sell for that. 110k might be ok, depending on year/spec. Tell us the details of the boat

There is a newer Sq58 of course, a facelift of the 55, so maybe Truro is referring to one of these? The values would then make more sense, although £110k for a quarter share may then be optimistic.

 

[Truro Ex Pat]

Its 2011 so yes newer boat.
They have had 2 in France 2012/11 and have not sold in 2 years and were priced at £550,000 or Euros 700K.
Maybe the £110k was a bit low but I had to drop my Cranchi 30% to get rid so was looking for the same margin as I know its going to be hard to sell in future!

 

[jfm]

There is a newer Sq58 of course, a facelift of the 55, so maybe Truro is referring to one of these? The values would then make more sense, although £110k for a quarter share may then be optimistic.

Ah yes, true. I was assuming the "classic" sq58, from 2003 to 2009, but I might be wrong. Maybe Truroxp can confirm.

Come to think of it you are probably right Nick, because see this in club de Mar mallorca http://www.yours2share.com/ads/14-share-fairline-targa-38-2008/ .. That's the "new model" so £110k is pretty optimistic imho and I can't see it happening

 

[jrudge]

There is this one ...

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2012/Fairline-Squadron-58-(1-4-SHARE)-2760924/Spain#.Vsx2tcfbdj4