Boat Project Recommendations for Beginner??

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Creatamax

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Hi Everyone! My names mike and i'm new to the forum, based in Shaftesbury Dorset. Hope you are all well and managing to get back out after the dreaded lockdown. Im completely new to sailing and boating, been sea kayaking for a few years quite extensively so experience in the conditions and navigation etc but i want to take to the seas and start sailing. Ive been on a couple of day trips in my past on a couple of sailing boats and a few times on motor boats and fishing trips but would love to get into sailing and love the thought of one day living aboard a boat.
Ive posted on the crewing page to try and get some experience and knowledge from some experienced sailors which would be great if i can.

I wanted to ask you guys that actually know what your on about to maybe point me in the right direction, but might be a bit to early to ask but what would be a good ocean going sail boat that i could keep an eye out for to fix up?. Im confident in engine rebuilds and any composites repairs and any gas or electrical work which is no problem and i also have some where i can store and work on a boat for free. Im on a bit of a budget so searching out something i could put money into over time while i gain experience would be fun and know i have a great sea worthy boat when finished.

I would like something i could grow into if that sort of boat exists but something i can sail by myself?. I see some people on youtube crossing oceans in quite small sail boats alone, obviously experienced but not super expensive big boats so was just wondering what would be some good makes and models to look out for that are more made for exploring and taking on passages rather then just pottering around.

Hope i'm not sounding to stupid or un realistic hahaha.

Cheers Mike
 
Welcome to the forums!

Might be an idea to get some crewing experience first on a variety of boats, then come back with a more detailed question (including your budget, etc) if you want sensible answers.

In the meantime, I'm off to get some popcorn. :rolleyes:
 
Hi Mike, and welcome aboard. Your skills mean that you’re better placed than most to take on a project and having somewhere to keep a boat whilst you work on it is a massive bonus. I’m going to duck the ‘which boat?’ question for the moment and ask YOU some questions! What sort of sailing do you want to do with this boat - build your experience with a view to changing later, or keep the boat and expand your sailing horizons? Where do you intend to sail? Is draught an issue (for example, as it would be in the continental canals or wherever you might wish to keep the boat when at home)? Where do you plan to base the boat - are there size constraints? Shallower mooring areas are often cheaper so that might focus your search to lifting or twin keels. Do you envisage wanting to trail the boat? Are you looking for ‘blue water’ capable? Finally, budget... you will almost certainly sink more ££ into a boat than you’ll get back in the end and if you have £ ‘x’ to spend you need to plan for £ ‘x minus a fair amount‘ for purchase.

I strongly recommend joining a Club, getting as much experience as you can and sail with different people on different boats. You don’t want to spend loads of time on the rail of a hotshot racer, find a club with a handicap fleet where there’s a good selection of boats at the lower end of the size and price range . You’ll soon see relative merits and hear loads of opinions! Cruising boats are probably more difficult to get a ride on but opinions are at least as valid.

Finally, the question which someone will be asking shortly, is ‘what’s your budget’ so maybe take some time to think what your answer will be bearing in mind that purchase price is only a starter!

There’s a lot of advice available on the forum, the trick is in deciding which is right for you. Good luck!
 
Hi Goldie
Thanks for the message, some really good points to think about and the sort of answer i was looking for. I definitely want something i can expand my sailing horizons with rather then change later, i've wasted lots of money in the past on other hobbies buying something to learn with then having to upgrade at a later date when really spending a bit more in the first place and getting something not ideal for a beginner but something that is usable but is great when more experienced, i'm one of those people that can pick up anything and be good at it and learn quickly so want something to expand into for sure. I know it takes years and really a lifetime and never stop learning with anything but don't want something that a year or few down the line i've out grown.

I want something Blue water capable for sure which is what i mean that i don't want to out grow the boat i want something capable to grow into. Definitely not something for canals as i love the open ocean and would love something to take me to more wild remote places with my sea kayak for sea kayak expeditions.

As for the mooring situation i guess thats more experienced based as not thought of that as to the depth of mooring but guess thats a definite consideration. Id more work towards what was best for the job and work around that for moorings i guess but would need to research that some more.

As for budget i totally get what can be sunk into a project as have researched prices of outfitting and rigging costs and have built a few campers in the past so know how much gas/ diesel heaters and various cookers and all the battery gear and chargers can cost. And have looked in to navigation equipment and auto pilots etc can cost. I have heard of people asking around marina yards and finding old un used boats for bargain prices which need work and have got them dirt cheap but was just gauging the water as for a thew makes and models which are known to be good for solo sailing and maybe what was the sort of prices i would expect to pay, £3000-£5000? lots less for a fixer up maybe?.

Definitely going to get some experience first and try and go on various boats but was just trying to get an idea of what was to look for a maybe avoid, as i could tell you in the kayak world or mountain bike world what was defiantly a no go or a great choice. Maybe i was looking for an answer thats not that simple.

Thanks for the reply though i much appreciate it.

Cheers Mike
 
Welcome to the forum. Echo the suggestion to join a club. There are several in Poole and all are keen to get new active members. The 2 biggest with the best facilities are Poole Yacht Club and Parkstone Yacht Club and both have big fleets of dinghies, keel boats and cruisers so plenty of opportunities to learn and crew. If you are focussed on cruising then doing a structured RYA course is a good start to give you the basics of sailing and living on a cruising boat.

Very few people start off with buying a boat, least of all one that needs work before it can be used, mainly because they don't know what they like until they have tried and secondly while the price of boats is at an all time low, costs of running a boat dwarf the costs of buying at the starter boat end. There are plenty of low cost functioning boats you can gain experience on once you get a feel for what you like doing. Most people start small and work up the size range and your first boat is unlikely to be your last.

While you will get lots of recommendations, that is because there are lots of good boats and folks recommend boats that they have owned, had experience of or even dreamed of owning. The reality is that there are very few really bad boats as far as design is concerned. What is much more important is condition and equipment, particularly now when boats are available at low prices. Major items such as sails, rigging, engines, electronics etc can cost more to replace than a whole boat costs to buy. Equally project boats that need work can run away with time and money, particularly if of the type and size that need to be kept in a boatyard.

Now things are freeing up take the time to wander round the boatyards in Poole, Weymouth and Portland to get a feel for the sorts of boats people own and look in the brokers for boats for sale, although they tend not to list the lower end of the market. Apolloduck, Ebay and Gumtree are places to find a wide range of boats for sale.
 
The fact that you have somewhere to store a boat whilst you work on it as well as the skills to do it could be a game changer. If it weren't for that we'd all pretty much be saying avoid projects because they invariably turn out to be more expensive than it would cost to buy a viable boat to start with, if they ever come close to fruition at all. So first find out whether you like sailing, see if you can try crewing on a few different sized boats and that will give you a better idea of what might suit you. If you still are employed you might even consider something of a size that could be trailered to your storage for the winter which would greatly reduce costs?
 
Thanks V1701
Going to get some mixed experience first as suggested as well by others. Will definitely help having storage and the knowledge to do the work i have searched and seen yard storage is a LOT! haha. Thanks for the reply. Could i ask what size do you think is reasonable size for towing? what size would you go up to before it becomes too big for towing and launching?.
Cheers Mike
 
Mike,

I think you‘ve probably had enough of the warnings and caveats for the moment, especially as you asked for boat type suggestions, but if you’re looking at a budget blue water capable boat and want to start a bit of on line looking, I’ll throw some starters into the ring. All are the same genre, because that’s the sort of thing I’d be looking for so, my ‘starters for 10‘: Invicta 26, Contessa 26, Nicholson 26, Bowman 26, Hurley 27. At the smaller end - seaworthy but not a size I’d want to live on - Hurley 22. Remember, asking prices and prices achieved can be quite different. I know someone who last year sold a Westerly Longbow (31ft) with a virtually brand new engine, restored interior and unused rigging for £6000 because he just wanted to get rid of it. There are a lot, lot more types to choose from so getting a boat that’s available, sound and meets your needs is far more important than hanging out for a particular model. At those ages, condition is everything. Under offer unfortunately, but I did see a Bowman 26 for an asking price of £2950 and lying close to you in Weymouth.
 
Suspect you may have to reset your expectations a bit. The sort of boat that Goldie suggests are the traditional small seaworthy boats that many have used for offshore sailing in the past - mainly because that was what was available. However they are very basic in terms of accommodation and require a particular attitude to lifestyle. Few of them are suitable for trailing as they are too heavy, so even if you have somewhere to work on it you still have the problem of transport, craneage, cradle etc. Despite their relatively small size, do not underestimate the cost and time required to bring them up to a standard suitable for offshore sailing. I understand your reluctance to change boats as you learn, but it is rare to find the right boat from a standing start with little experience of what is required, or what you like. The first boat is for learning on, second one is better because of what you learned and by the third or fourth you get close! It is at that point that it is worth investing in a boat that will be a keeper.

When you start looking in your price range you will find many boats that are for sale whose owners started out thinking as you are and eventually give up as the time runs away and the costs mount. The smart thing is to double your budget and find a boat that has had all the major work done and is ready to go. You will still find plenty to do improving it. The examples Goldie gave are not unusual - many people (often of advancing years) are giving up sailing because of the cost and work involved in keeping a boat going. I sold an excellent 26' boat ready to go (the new owner immediately sailed it back from Poole to S Wales) for £4000, little more than the new engine cost. To put things in perspective storage costs and insurance was almost £2000 a year. I dread to think how much I had spent in the previous nearly 40 years in keeping it in tip top condition, never mind the hours of work.

As with most things, once you up the budget a whole new set of possibilities opens up. In today's market that is very true - the £5-10k takes you into a different league in both size and condition - a boat like the Westerly Longbow mentioned earlier is a much more substantial boat - more space, more comfort, better all round cruising capability than the older style smaller boat. There are many similar boats in the 26-30' range built in the 70s and early 80s that are worth considering. You need to look at a lot of boats to get a feel for what suits you.

Spend a pleasant evening looking at the boats on this site as it gives a good selection of different types
yachtsnet.co.uk/archives.htm
 
DIY towing upper limit is realistically 3500kg(a Defender can pull 4 tonnes with power brakes, but that's pretty specialised), allowing 7-800kg of trailer that gets you 27-2800kg of boat. If there's a boatshifting club/association near you somewhat bigger boats can be moved quite cheaply if they're on suitable cradles; one near me can deal with up to about 6 tonnes or so. There are many knackered Manky Auld Boats in the 25'-35' bracket from the era 1965-1985 clogging up the defaulters parade at the back of UK boatyards and marina boatparks, some of which are worth the effort and money to restore, some not. Wait a year or so to find out what you like and hopefully a notion of what you need; you write of blue water yet you've no experience of sailing. Patience grasshopper. Unless you've terminal lurgy, in which case fill your boots and get on with it.
 
Would I do a long distance? No. I've towed an Impala short distances on the heaviest and worst designed road trailer ever and didn't die once. It wasn't much fun though, it hobbyhorsed over the slightest undulation.
Scala said:
It's an utterly terrible towing vehicle for road use.
Click to expand...
I take issue with this; the Defender is just a terrible road vehicle. :ROFLMAO:
 
I towed my Stella from Cheshire to Grays behind a Land Rover Discovery with no problem doing a steady 45-50 MPH on a 40 + year old SBS trailer
I would have been quite happy towing it to Scotland somewhere, which was one of my plans once sorted.
 
Daydream believer said:
I towed my Stella from Cheshire to Grays behind a Land Rover Discovery with no problem doing a steady 45-50 MPH on a 40 + year old SBS trailer
I would have been quite happy towing it to Scotland somewhere, which was one of my plans once sorted.
Click to expand...
Discovery a great towing vehicle ... The Deafener very much less so ?
 
Creatamax said:
Hi Everyone! .....

I wanted to ask you guys that actually know what your on about to maybe point me in the right direction, but might be a bit to early to ask but what would be a good ocean going sail boat that i could keep an eye out for to fix up?. Im confident in engine rebuilds and any composites repairs and any gas or electrical work which is no problem and i also have some where i can store and work on a boat for free. Im on a bit of a budget so searching out something i could put money into over time while i gain experience would be fun and know i have a great sea worthy boat when finished.

I would like something i could grow into if that sort of boat exists but something i can sail by myself?. I see some people on youtube crossing oceans in quite small sail boats alone, obviously experienced but not super expensive big boats.......

Hope i'm not sounding to stupid or un realistic hahaha.

Cheers Mike
Click to expand...


Hello Mike,

Goldie, in post 9, has covered some sensible options. If you really have your eyes set on the far horizons I would be looking towards 30ft rather than smaller. These boats involve a similar sort of work but would be much more comfortable at sea.

However, before you set off down the slippery path, look seriously at the amount of work people put into project boats, look at blogs, look on YouTube and ask yourself if you are really up for it. If so, then do a bit of serious sailing - don't spend a load of dosh and years of your life, to find out you hate it or get seasick on the mooring.

All boats are projects,even 5 year old ones, Some boats which are advertised as Projects are actually just wrecks.

.
 
Get an old Centaur. There will always be someone daft enough to buy it when you realise that you have made a mistake.
It is the sort of boat that will sell on- eventually :rolleyes:
If you do manage to make a success of it then you can actually go quite a long way & they do actually work. Then there are loads of people who will help with advice & spares are available.
Probably one of the better "do up" boats which one can actually sail.
 
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