Boat on hard - what are the risks?

[peter2407]

My boat is out on the hard, and although I am not freakishly nervous, I have noticed a certain greater caution/apprehensiveness, which gave me cause to think:

How safe are the standard yard cradles, ie formed on the spot as opposed to pre formed?
How important to the cradle is the bow prop - nice to have or critical? I ask because last time she was out, and i was working at the bow, the prop fell off and hit my new to me car..
Is the risk of starting the engine (prohibited due to vibration risks) any different from raising the main and a freak gust coming in - would the force be any worse? Again I ask as the main is now off, and I may well be able to get it back on when on the hard but would like to raise to check etc.
Ladder access - usually I put the ladder on the side, but then thought at the stern with the boarding ladder down, however now have boarding ladder down but ladder "fed through" the pushpit and tied off, so the routine is: up ladder to the level of the boarding ladder, grab the pushpit, step onto the boarding ladder, then up and onto the boat.

TIA

 

[savageseadog]

There are many safety issues. I've known people fall off ladders and their boats in the yard, an obvious risk. Strength of cradle depends on design and condition. I wouldn't worry about vibration from the engine. I have seen a yacht prop go right through a yacht hull in storm force winds. The biggest risks are fire and boats falling on your boat and the yard crane bumping you.

 

[sarabande]

I would never, ever, trust a support system made out of chunks of wood and old beer barrels. If one component becomes loose, then the whole pile is useless as they are not locked together. A steel purpose built cradle, nothing less, to avoid any insurance issues.


Engines... too many risks of fire, evil smoke, etc - but fear of vibration underlines the 'jenga' issue of wooden blocks.


Mind the ice on stainless steel pushpit/boarding ladder etc. Lowest point is usually by the cockpit, and you can unclip (pelican hook) the lifelines, so no stepping higher than necessary.

Ice on GRP
Vibration from halyards/shrouds etc
Any dodgy looking neighbours (not secured against tempests)
Adjacent electrical cables
Any keen DIY chap on a steel boat next to you

 

[duncan99210]

I wouldn't raise any sails whilst the boat is on the hard. A good gust could knock you off the supports, into the next door boat and so on..... A few winters back an incompletely furled mainsail on a yacht in Corfu managed to work its way loose, toppled that yacht and brought down a slack handful of other boats.

 

[knuterikt]

My boat is out on the hard, and although I am not freakishly nervous, I have noticed a certain greater caution/apprehensiveness, which gave me cause to think:

How safe are the standard yard cradles, ie formed on the spot as opposed to pre formed?
How important to the cradle is the bow prop - nice to have or critical? I ask because last time she was out, and i was working at the bow, the prop fell off and hit my new to me car..
Is the risk of starting the engine (prohibited due to vibration risks) any different from raising the main and a freak gust coming in - would the force be any worse? Again I ask as the main is now off, and I may well be able to get it back on when on the hard but would like to raise to check etc.
Ladder access - usually I put the ladder on the side, but then thought at the stern with the boarding ladder down, however now have boarding ladder down but ladder "fed through" the pushpit and tied off, so the routine is: up ladder to the level of the boarding ladder, grab the pushpit, step onto the boarding ladder, then up and onto the boat.

TIA

If the bow prop fell it was not properly set up or inspected during lay up...
Our boat club require owners to inspect the boat support regularly, we got a reminder today about this.

I would consider starting the engine a much lesser risk than hoisting a sail,
In our marina all sails must be taken of before going on the hard with mast up.

We have no restrictions on starting the engines on the hard.
With winter cover on the best access on our boat i the stern (we have a sugar scoop)

I picture of a worst case scenario? one of the boats in this heap had inadequate support, when it failed during a funnel cloud (small tornado)

 

[Lucky Duck]

Personnaly I would feel very nervous about raising the main while my boat was in a cradle on the hardstanding and even the with the jib I wouldn't want it flogging around for a moment longer than necessary and only in little or no wind.

Otherwise I suspect the greatest risk is falling off either the boat or ladders...

 

[yoda]

whatever sort of cradle you have, running the engine will set up vibrations that could loosen shores or cradle legs. I think putting up the main is a big no no because of both vibration and the leverage forces involved. Cradles made from wooden props should be cross braced to adjacent props with battens. Bow and stern props are also important and need to be tied in to prevent them falling away when the boat vibrates. I find a ladder that is about 18 inches higher than the top guard rail, tied into the toe rail is the most stable way of getting on and off because it has a decent height hand hold. Where you put the ladder is a matter of where it is best to step onto the boat.

Yoda

 

[neil1967]

We're on the hard at Port Solent. Most of the (many) yachts are supported by large wooden props connected together with interlacing wooden lathes, and wooden wedges are used between the props and the hull to ensure a tight fit. The yard send someone round in bad weather to 'tap' the wedges to make sure everything is secure. We have stayed on board in high winds and never felt any movement, so, when properly done I have no qualms about this slightly more lo-tech approach. I wouldn't want to raise a sail when ashore - in fact Port Solent state that all sails should be removed before lifting.

Neil

 

[prv]

whatever sort of cradle you have, running the engine will set up vibrations that could loosen shores or cradle legs.

Never been on board in the yard during a stiff blow? With the rig up, we vibrate far more than with the engine running, and for longer.

If your props can't survive the engine, then they won't survive the weather either. Mostly a superstition IMHO.

I think putting up the main is a big no no because of both vibration and the leverage forces involved.

I tend to agree, although it ought to be ok on an absolutely flat-calm day. But I can't really see why you'd need to hoist sails in the yard anyway. Leave it till you're afloat.

I find a ladder that is about 18 inches higher than the top guard rail, tied into the toe rail is the most stable way of getting on and off because it has a decent height hand hold. Where you put the ladder is a matter of where it is best to step onto the boat.

Agree you want a ladder that's higher than the gunwale - mine is about four feet higher, originally it was more but I had to cut the end off to allow the boom to swing out for use as a crane . This means I can climb right up the ladder to deck level with a secure handhold, then step sideways onto the deck. I disconnect the guardrails at the stanchion just forward of where the ladder goes, so that it's a clear step from ladder to deck with nothing to step over or trip on. I secured and re-tensioned the top guardrail so that it still provided protection for the side-deck and fore-deck.

I also knocked up a landing piece for the ladder out of scrap wood. It consisted of a strip of 1x1.5 that fitted along the aluminium toe-rail, with a block attached at either end leaving a gap the width of the ladder in between. Another strip went on the inside of the toe-rail and the two were screwed together through the holes in the rail. This stood the ladder off slightly so that it didn't mark the hull as it otherwise would have, and the side blocks eliminated any possibility of the ladder slipping sideways. As belt and braces I also used to put a short length of rope through one of the hollow rungs and tied to the toe-rail each side.

It all takes a little longer to first set up than just leaning a ladder against the side and clambering over the wires (though not as long as the description possibly makes it sound!) but I was up and down that ladder dozens and dozens of times over the winter so it's worth making it effortless and as safe as possible.

Pete

 

[nimbusgb]

What you want is a cradle such as the ones used by the yards in Preveza. Backbone of 200 mm I beam, two cross pieces of 120 mm I beam. Minimum 4 struts usually 6, cross braced with chains. ( usually supplemented by forefoot and or rear strut )

Running the engine, no problem.

Hoisting sails to dry, no problem.

Living aboard for weeks, no problem.

Climbing masts, no problem.

In fact Greece, and in particular the Ionian has had some 6 plus tremors and not a single boat has fallen over ( some did in a big quake 20 odd years ago but they were on older type props or cradles and everyone subsequently changed to the current arrangement )

 

[Binman]

I'm glad my boat sits on a trailer, I use heavy duty slings and tie it down, for mast work, and even deck work as bilge keel it can rock when forward, I use clocks as well behind and in front of my keels, a ladder needs to extend tree foot so able to step off, needs tying top and bottom.

 

[Seajet]

Yet another consideration - and it's not the last of a long list - is safety of the position on shore from vandals; it's rare but I can think of an incident a few years ago when the scum tried to light fires under boats ashore at a well known, well thought of marina which had a part open to pedestrians; IIRC one good boat was seriously damaged and others around lucky either the fire didn't spread or staff / fire service got there in time.

Sad but true...

 

[[70521]]

My boat is out on the hard, and although I am not freakishly nervous, I have noticed a certain greater caution/apprehensiveness, which gave me cause to think:

How safe are the standard yard cradles, ie formed on the spot as opposed to pre formed?
How important to the cradle is the bow prop - nice to have or critical? I ask because last time she was out, and i was working at the bow, the prop fell off and hit my new to me car..
Is the risk of starting the engine (prohibited due to vibration risks) any different from raising the main and a freak gust coming in - would the force be any worse? Again I ask as the main is now off, and I may well be able to get it back on when on the hard but would like to raise to check etc.
Ladder access - usually I put the ladder on the side, but then thought at the stern with the boarding ladder down, however now have boarding ladder down but ladder "fed through" the pushpit and tied off, so the routine is: up ladder to the level of the boarding ladder, grab the pushpit, step onto the boarding ladder, then up and onto the boat.

TIA

If it is in a yard it is at their risk; simples.

 

[sarabande]

We're on the hard at Port Solent. Most of the (many) yachts are supported by large wooden props connected together with interlacing wooden lathes, and wooden wedges are used between the props and the hull to ensure a tight fit. The yard send someone round in bad weather to 'tap' the wedges to make sure everything is secure.

Neil

That is a classic Single Point of Failure ! The yard recognises that wooden props work loose. There are umpteen causes to prevent the tapper going round and completing his tasks, and then it's dominos.

Given the cost of a production run of hundreds (?) of steel cradles, set against the value of laid-up boats, I am utterly surprised that the insurance company hasn't stipulated proper support system.

 

[xyachtdave]

If the bow prop fell it was not properly set up or inspected during lay up...
Our boat club require owners to inspect the boat support regularly, we got a reminder today about this.

I would consider starting the engine a much lesser risk than hoisting a sail,
In our marina all sails must be taken of before going on the hard with mast up.

We have no restrictions on starting the engines on the hard.
With winter cover on the best access on our boat i the stern (we have a sugar scoop)

I picture of a worst case scenario? one of the boats in this heap had inadequate support, when it failed during a funnel cloud (small tornado)

Nice X Yacht compilation...!

 

[prv]

If it is in a yard it is at their risk; simples.

That's fine if your boat to you is a simple financial artifact, such that all that matters if it gets damaged is who foots the bill.

I assume for most of us, our boats are somewhat more than that. I know ours is. There's hundreds of hours of my work in there which couldn't be replicated by an insurance payout.

Pete

 

[Cafran]

Nothing wrong with properly "shored" and blocked boats although modern designed boats with spade type keels should be secured in a proper steel cradle. Hoisting sails when ashore was always a no no and running an engine had to be done with someone supervising the shores.
there is a skill to shoring boats in the form of where the shores and blocks are placed, sole / hull plates and wedges top, bottom or both, never "dropped" a boat In all my years in the yard did have a couple of "leaners" but the stack didn't go down and in those days we didn't tie the shores together! Biggest mistake made nowadays is that they place the shore under the boat and not against it, then wind pressure on hull means shore becomes tipping point and keel lifts off block and the rest is history!

 

[sarabande]

Cafran - you have underlined the point I am making about the vulnerability of wooden shores. If one small piece becomes loose, then the blocks and poles and wedges and other shoring components are likely to shake apart.

It simply does not make sense with modern hull shapes, slippery GRP and metal hulls to use anything except a proper metal cradle.

I agree that most people see boats as needing upward support, not sideways as well.

 

[jerrytug]

It doesn't make sense with old fashioned hull shapes either, proper steel props/cradles or scaffolding, or nothing.
How did you get on with the scaffolding by the way?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I would never, ever, trust a support system made out of chunks of wood and old beer barrels.

My last boat used to winter in the yard at Kilcreggan, which had been run by the McGrouther brothers for fifty years or more, and I don't think there was a boat in the place supported on anything other than wooden props and the occasional oil drum. Of course it helped that they went round every day checking things.