Boat moored "the wrong way round"!

[LadyInBed]

Background: Our moorings were re-laid and re-spaced (moved closer together) last winter.
After this they dragged and moved from the river bank to the middle of the river.
The Environment Agency have been in communication with me:

I have undertaken maintenance on your mooring. It has been move back into the bank where it should be.
Can I please ask you to turn your boat around to face the correct way with the bow facing upstream. The boat is putting too much strain on the mooring when the tide is running off as it forces the stern of the boat out into the river. This is part of the reason the mooring has been pulled out into the river.
Can you please attend to this asap.

I replied:

Thank you for your information.
Regarding which way round my boat points, I would totally disagree that "This is part of the reason the mooring has been pulled out into the river".
I have pointed down river approximately 80% of the time in the Thirteen years that I have been on the mooring !
The moorings did not move in all that time up until the recent re-spacing and re-laying of the moorings.
If one boat on the trot can have the effect you suggest, then I would have serious concern on the quality of the moorings that were re-laid!
If you are the person that I have spoken to several times in the environment agency boat, not once have you raised the question as to the direction that my boat points.

The reason I mainly point down river is for ease of departure as I sail mainly single handed.

EA replied:

Thank you for your reply.
I have been watching how your boat lays on the mooring for some months and your boat is prone to pulling out into the flow when the tide runs off because the flow is hitting the stern and also the rudder, once your vessel is across the flow it starts to turn the vessel above you and so on.
It has not always faced down stream, this has only become more prevalent this year, I have had to move your boat for maintenance on many occasions over the years and it is the only this year I have had to do it facing down stream.
There is no issue with the moorings being relaid there are several factors that caused movement this year the weather being the major factor. They have been re spaced for operational reasons.
I still require your boat on that mooring to be tied up facing upstream as with the rest of the boats on that section.
If I can determine that there is no difference in the way your vessel lies when the tide runs off or in high river flows then I will look at it again.
We will not be re spacing the moorings. If the mooring moves again with your boat facing the wrong way I will look at weather your boat will need to be moved to another mooring.

My reply:

" I have been watching how your boat lays on the mooring for some months and your boat is prone to pulling out into the flow when the tide runs off because the flow is hitting the stern and also the rudder"
So have I, that is why:
a) I have, and always have had twin mooring lines, one to each side of the stern.
b) My rudder is positioned to counteract the current flow on the ebb.
I have also observed that the upstream end of all the boats tend to rotate out when the tide starts to ebb, especially those with longer mooring lines.

" this has only become more prevalent this year"
That is more to do with the moorings shifting themselves to mid stream!
When the moorings shifted position, I was away from my mooring cruising in Brittany.
I returned to find that they had moved position and commented so to the boat moored down stream of me.

" I have had to move your boat for maintenance on many occasions over the years"
I think you are confusing my boat with another! On a visit to the boat, the first thing I check is the mooring lines and it would be obvious to me if they had been retied by someone other than me.
My boat has been moved when I have been informed that maintenance was required, but I was always moved by me.

" I still require your boat on that mooring to be tied up facing upstream as with the rest of the boats on that section."
Next time I visit the boat, providing conditions are favourable, I will turn the boat to face upstream, but this is only out of courtesy as there is nothing in the mooring T's & C's to say that boats can only be moored facing upstream.

" If I can determine that there is no difference in the way your vessel lies when the tide runs off or in high river flows then I will look at it again."
I think you should also address the fact that it was only after the recent re-laying and re-spacing that the moorings moved.
They didn't move after the previous re-laying was carried out.

"If the mooring moves again with your boat facing the wrong way I will look at weather your boat will need to be moved to another mooring."
This sounds a little vindictive, I hope you will take into account (as stated above) that I wasn't on the mooring when they shifted!

Do they have a case?

 

[fireball]

The only "case" I could see would be a suitability one for that mooring.
Ultimately I suppose they could decline your offer of renewing the mooring contract, but other than that, it doesn't sound like you're breaking the t&c's set down.
What other mooring would they move you to? Would it be significantly less convenient? May be a reduction in fees if you agree to the move?

I'm glad they'll look at the "weather" - although I don't think your boat has much to do with that weather ... whether they understand that or not is beyond me!

Just as a FYI - I've tried to move our mooring just by motoring against it ... it didn't shift ... and neither should it ... if a mooring can be shifted by the engine then it can be shifted by normal weather conditions - then (IMHO) the mooring isn't fit for purpose!

 

[wotayottie]

Background: Our moorings were re-laid and re-spaced (moved closer together) last winter.
After this they dragged and moved from the river bank to the middle of the river.
The Environment Agency have been in communication with me:

I replied:

EA replied:

My reply:

Do they have a case?

Yes. Its their mooring. If thats what they require then either comply or move.

The reason is that the flow on the ebb will be fiercer / faster than on the flood.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Whatever the rights and wrongs, I've always felt it best to try to stay on good terms with the mooring people. We expect them to keep an eye on our boats (or at least hope that they will) and I've had reason to appreciate their help on more than one occasion.

There's no point in looking for a fight with them and, in any event, they usually do know what they are talking about.

 

[[70521]]

Are you pointing in the same direction as everybody else?

 

[LadyInBed]

Are you pointing in the same direction as everybody else?

No, most boats point upstream, but it tends to depend on the state of the tide when the boat returns.
If it is on the flood, then a boat may turn to approach against the current and moor facing down stream.

 

[LadyInBed]

in any event, they usually do know what they are talking about.

We are talking about the Environment Agency here!

 

[lw395]

It's a river.
Therefore there is more flow out than in.
On many rivers, the difference is often huge.
But on the other hand, if the rudder is properly secured centred, and the boat does not stern down, the resistance to current may be much the same in either direction.
If you were exposed to waves coming up river, pointing into the waves might be a good idea.
There may be more complex things like eddies to consider.

 

[Little Sam]

This is the environment agency your arguing with here. you would be shocked at that power they have. Best just to do as told and keep schtum. Environment agency = Environmental POlice and the same powers when it comes to crime against the environment! (in there opinion) Just do as told ....its best.

I have seen first hand how they can completely close a business down whether that be a small boat yard come mooring business or bankrupting a multi million organization.

Think of the EA as a cross between the Police and HM Government and Taxes. You wont be far off the powers they have. many take the "environment" word as a bit of a joke, underestimate them to your peril.

And dont forget the "environment" word has been all the buzz for the last 15 years and they ALWAYS win in court.

 

[Niander]

I would of thought The boat would be better facing main flow also

 

[chwarae]

Is the river prone to trees being washed downstream? Debris such as large branches and trees can put huge stresses on moorings if caught against the stern of a boat. Lying bow upstream is normally thought the best way particularly if the mooring is in the main run of the river. Debris also has a better chance of being deflected by the bow.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

If the mooring can't cope with the boat being moored stern to they need to fix the mooring quickly. If the mooring is shifting with the boat moored by the stern and the rudder lashed at centre she will almost certainly shift with her moored bow to as well. Unfortunately you've got a jobsworth by the sound of it and email isn't the best way to communicate. To an extent they've got you by the short and curlies I suspect (there's nearly always something in the contract that just allows them to throw you out) so maybe a visit to discuss in a friendly manner face to face.

 

[john_morris_uk]

They have got a case.

The ebb is usually stronger then the flood and therefore the strain is not equal.

Its perfectly possible that despite people's scepticism about a Government agency they might actually know what they are talking about. We are down to individuals here and this person might be knowledgeable and good at their job. No need to automatically think the person is a moron because they work for the agency...

Its their mooring - its up to you to comply.

When you leave, then presumably you often aim to leave on the ebb - in which case departing your mooring facing into the current (upstream) would be preferable?

However I do have some sympathy; our home mooring is a trot and I often wish it was a swinging mooring so the boat would always face the strongest element!

 

[Zagato]

Speaking to people directly is always better than entering into correspondence. Correspondence is only useful to keep a record once it's got out of hand. It's like a very stressful neighbourly dispute - you don't want an air of grief and bad relations everytime you go to your boat/relaxing hobby. Is it so difficult to get on/off your mooring when single handed if you turn it the other way...

 

[LadyInBed]

The points not really picked up are that:
I've been on the mooring for 13 years, mostly pointing down river without any issue.
The moorings only shifted recently, after relaying and the trot buoys put closer together.
I was off cruising when the trot dragged!
There is nothing in the T's & C's as to which way round a boat should point.

I accept that it is common practice to point to the upstrean stronger current, but a lot depends on the direction of flow when you return to the mooring, I often return on the flood.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I bet the blocks had all dug themselves into the river bed before and that's why you hade years of trouble free mooring. When the blocks were lifted and relaid they were much easier to drag around.

 

[LadyInBed]

I bet the blocks had all dug themselves into the river bed before and that's why you hade years of trouble free mooring. When the blocks were lifted and relaid they were much easier to drag around.

It didn't happen after they were replaced the previous time, about seven years ago.
The only difference being that this time the sinkers were re-spaced and, this time I was away when they dragged.

 

[sarabande]

perhaps you could put those arguments to the EA, and suggest that you will continue to moor facing the most appropriate way when you return, and that you will compensate them if your boat (when moored facing downstream) displaces their moorings. Of course, to be fair, you expect them to compensate you if the moorings drag when you happen to be moored facing upstream.

 

[reginaldon]

I wish I had someone looking after my mooring!

 

[LadyInBed]

perhaps you could put those arguments to the EA

I did, see original correspondence in initial post above.