BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
Understood, but its a bit of a trek for us who live in the South of England to go for a day-sail!
Boat measurements; when is a 37 foot boat not........
- Thread starter Becky
- Start date
G
Guest
Guest
LOA .....
Technically LOA does NOT include appendages / fittings etc ... but dear old UK Marinas have decided on their own interpretation / version of LOA.
I agree that all these appendages incur manoeuvring room and use up air-space .... so its a difficult one to know which side of the fence to be - we all want less fees, but we also fair between all boat sizes / occupation of space.
Technically LOA does NOT include appendages / fittings etc ... but dear old UK Marinas have decided on their own interpretation / version of LOA.
I agree that all these appendages incur manoeuvring room and use up air-space .... so its a difficult one to know which side of the fence to be - we all want less fees, but we also fair between all boat sizes / occupation of space.
G
Guest
Guest
That\'s ok .... you are not the only one ....
For my 25ft'r in UK I pay about £1400 a year ..... (Solent based) Pontoon berth, semi tidal, water free but electric metered.
My ex race boat in Tallinn, Pirita it was about $300 ( ...... about £170) a season with lift out and winter storage another $200 approx. Total about £390 all in with water and electric, no tides etc.
My Ventspils boat is in my own private canal of the Venta river .... so free with all services I care to connect !
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
For my 25ft'r in UK I pay about £1400 a year ..... (Solent based) Pontoon berth, semi tidal, water free but electric metered.
My ex race boat in Tallinn, Pirita it was about $300 ( ...... about £170) a season with lift out and winter storage another $200 approx. Total about £390 all in with water and electric, no tides etc.
My Ventspils boat is in my own private canal of the Venta river .... so free with all services I care to connect !
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
John_N
Well-Known Member
Re: The DIY Manual on measuring boats ....
OK in theory, but you don't REALLY believe that marina operators go to that much trouble do you?
OK in theory, but you don't REALLY believe that marina operators go to that much trouble do you?
John_N
Well-Known Member
Re: The DIY Manual on measuring boats ....
OK in theory, but you don't REALLY believe that marina operators go to that much trouble do you? How much do you allow for the sag in the tape over a distance of about 10 metres?
OK in theory, but you don't REALLY believe that marina operators go to that much trouble do you? How much do you allow for the sag in the tape over a distance of about 10 metres?
G
Guest
Guest
Re: The DIY Manual on measuring boats ....
No ... just answering a persons post on how to measure accurately.
No ... just answering a persons post on how to measure accurately.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: The DIY Manual on measuring boats ....
No ... just answering a persons post on how to measure accurately.
sag in tape ... nil if measured across pontoon or ground ...
Ok - let me quote an observation ... 2 guys .... using 2 long sticks and a clipboard + a Ultra-sonic measure. The boat in question was alongside NOT a finger berth.
One guy held a long stick at right-angles to the anchor stock and the clipboard vertical at end .... other guy held his stick at right-angles to aft-most appendage and with the US meter measured between the sticks using the clipboard as thye bounce point. Only took a few seconds ......
No ... just answering a persons post on how to measure accurately.
sag in tape ... nil if measured across pontoon or ground ...
Ok - let me quote an observation ... 2 guys .... using 2 long sticks and a clipboard + a Ultra-sonic measure. The boat in question was alongside NOT a finger berth.
One guy held a long stick at right-angles to the anchor stock and the clipboard vertical at end .... other guy held his stick at right-angles to aft-most appendage and with the US meter measured between the sticks using the clipboard as thye bounce point. Only took a few seconds ......
Ariadne
Well-Known Member
Re: The DIY Manual on measuring boats ....
Get the LOA measured officially eg from the stem (The stem is not the bows) to the stern (rear edge of the Stern post or rudder stock). Its an official length accepted by the MCA and all certification bodies (eg LR, BV, NV), they shouldn't realy be able to argue that. Then if the pontoons are to short for your boat ask them for a rebate by the m/". It'll never work but just imagine their faces.
Then, if we all did it they'd have to take notice.
Get the LOA measured officially eg from the stem (The stem is not the bows) to the stern (rear edge of the Stern post or rudder stock). Its an official length accepted by the MCA and all certification bodies (eg LR, BV, NV), they shouldn't realy be able to argue that. Then if the pontoons are to short for your boat ask them for a rebate by the m/". It'll never work but just imagine their faces.
Then, if we all did it they'd have to take notice.
Viking
Well-Known Member
37'4"? Not with that bucket you've got hanging from your bow-roller.
ChrisE
Well-Known Member
All the better for you to avoid 'itting yer head on!
Rob_Webb
Well-Known Member
Draft
As your boat gets longer your draft generally gets deeper. And dredging marinas to the necessary depth is miles more expensive than laying a few extra feet of pontoon.
Hence the extra cost can be justified when you start to overhang a short finger berth - cos they've had to spend a lot of dosh dredging the seabed to get you and your deep keel in.
As your boat gets longer your draft generally gets deeper. And dredging marinas to the necessary depth is miles more expensive than laying a few extra feet of pontoon.
Hence the extra cost can be justified when you start to overhang a short finger berth - cos they've had to spend a lot of dosh dredging the seabed to get you and your deep keel in.
Dyflin
Well-Known Member
Re: LOA .....
[ QUOTE ]
Technically LOA does NOT include appendages / fittings etc ... but dear old UK Marinas have decided on their own interpretation / version of LOA.
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically LOA DOES include any overhangs or projections, you do need to know the overall length of a vessel in order to ascertain if you have enough space to berth, manoeuvre, lock etc. the vessel.
These guys agree with my definition
[ QUOTE ]
Technically LOA does NOT include appendages / fittings etc ... but dear old UK Marinas have decided on their own interpretation / version of LOA.
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically LOA DOES include any overhangs or projections, you do need to know the overall length of a vessel in order to ascertain if you have enough space to berth, manoeuvre, lock etc. the vessel.
These guys agree with my definition
G
Guest
Guest
I was staying clear of Shipping LOA .... for good reason
The Official Shipping LOA is :>
Quote ...... "Length Overall (LOA)
The extreme length of the vessel measured from the foremost part to the aftermost part of the hull.......unquote
But you have introduced "part" of the measurement called LBP ... which is :>
Quote - "LBP =
Length Between Perpendiculars. Length of the ship measured between two vertical lines corresponding to the location where the loaded ship at summer marks even keel cross the water line. Aft it is also positioned in function of the rudder shaft. The drafts marks are preferably placed in way of these perpandiculars. This is the length used for most calculations. The frames are usually numbered from the aft perpandiculars" ...... unquote
Note that none of the above include appendages or fittings ... the LOA states quite clearly HULL ....
As shown above ... the Rudder Post actually comes into the LBP area and is a measure more used by Surveyors for calculations of loaded ship weight .... and just for your interest !! - we also measure the difference between where draft marks are and the LBP to correct the observed draft to draft at perpendiculars for calculation of displacement .... but now we are getting into surveyors black arts !
The Official Shipping LOA is :>
Quote ...... "Length Overall (LOA)
The extreme length of the vessel measured from the foremost part to the aftermost part of the hull.......unquote
But you have introduced "part" of the measurement called LBP ... which is :>
Quote - "LBP =
Length Between Perpendiculars. Length of the ship measured between two vertical lines corresponding to the location where the loaded ship at summer marks even keel cross the water line. Aft it is also positioned in function of the rudder shaft. The drafts marks are preferably placed in way of these perpandiculars. This is the length used for most calculations. The frames are usually numbered from the aft perpandiculars" ...... unquote
Note that none of the above include appendages or fittings ... the LOA states quite clearly HULL ....
As shown above ... the Rudder Post actually comes into the LBP area and is a measure more used by Surveyors for calculations of loaded ship weight .... and just for your interest !! - we also measure the difference between where draft marks are and the LBP to correct the observed draft to draft at perpendiculars for calculation of displacement .... but now we are getting into surveyors black arts !
G
Guest
Guest
Re: LOA ..... append or not
http://www.marineterms.com/
The Marine Encyclopaedic Dictionary - MN Reference Book
MCA
Draft Survey Institute Antwerp
Ship-Building and General Construction Text-books found in any Merchant Navy College ...
Need I quote further ???? Having a Qualification in GSK and Ship Knowledge as well as Commercial Marine Surveyor should indicate that I have to use the correct measurement points of reference ?? Otherwise I could make serious errors when loading ships etc.
NOW .... onto Yachts .... I agree that LOA often is interpreted as including all bits and pieces - and this makes sense in terms of getting the boats into berths / marinas etc. Whether the official definition is used or not is not the point - we are aware that Marinas generally define THEIR understanding of a boats length as including everything.
To be honest - I think this illustrates another case of Shipping terms coming across into Yachting world and getting "bent" to suit ..... I think it best to stay off Shipping Terms and use a more Yachting suited one ... say "overall" or "extreme" length ?? to save confusion .....
If anyone wants to have a read of above books ... a trip into Hamble Book-Shop or similar Marine Based will suffice ......
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
http://www.marineterms.com/
The Marine Encyclopaedic Dictionary - MN Reference Book
MCA
Draft Survey Institute Antwerp
Ship-Building and General Construction Text-books found in any Merchant Navy College ...
Need I quote further ???? Having a Qualification in GSK and Ship Knowledge as well as Commercial Marine Surveyor should indicate that I have to use the correct measurement points of reference ?? Otherwise I could make serious errors when loading ships etc.
NOW .... onto Yachts .... I agree that LOA often is interpreted as including all bits and pieces - and this makes sense in terms of getting the boats into berths / marinas etc. Whether the official definition is used or not is not the point - we are aware that Marinas generally define THEIR understanding of a boats length as including everything.
To be honest - I think this illustrates another case of Shipping terms coming across into Yachting world and getting "bent" to suit ..... I think it best to stay off Shipping Terms and use a more Yachting suited one ... say "overall" or "extreme" length ?? to save confusion .....
If anyone wants to have a read of above books ... a trip into Hamble Book-Shop or similar Marine Based will suffice ......
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
G
Guest
Guest
Re: LOA .....or OVERALL length ????
Uh Hum ..... seems the USA does it again ........ takes centuries of Naval Tradition and rewrites the Terminology .....
but of course the term used by the NVR is OVERALL LENGTH ....... not LOA .... a small point but a valid one !!
Uh Hum ..... seems the USA does it again ........ takes centuries of Naval Tradition and rewrites the Terminology .....
but of course the term used by the NVR is OVERALL LENGTH ....... not LOA .... a small point but a valid one !!
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
Re: LOA .....or OVERALL length ????
When I took my last boat to France, I found it most handy to have made a minor mistake in measuring the length when I declared the info for the SSR. It came out just below 10m, and Johnny Foreigner was happy to use the SSR doc when indeed he did not just take my word for it. Including an over winter stay.
After all, the SSR is a meaningless bit of paper in the UK.
/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
When I took my last boat to France, I found it most handy to have made a minor mistake in measuring the length when I declared the info for the SSR. It came out just below 10m, and Johnny Foreigner was happy to use the SSR doc when indeed he did not just take my word for it. Including an over winter stay.
After all, the SSR is a meaningless bit of paper in the UK.
/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
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