Boat in build pics (Squadron 78)

[aquapower]

I visited factory again last week. Lots happened since my last visit over a month ago. Fairline are trying to finish the boat in time for LIBS2011.
Below is the custom fly dash, finally moulded. This is the end product of the plug/mould project madeto my design by Broom Boats in Norfolk. Aquapower kindly introduced me to the team who did all this work at Broom - Aquapower, I’ll email these to Robin too. This is a really nice job. The dash is awaiting two panels to sit on the face, painted Mercedes “cubanite silver” which is a metallic beige, and made by Axon. Then the Garmin gear can be installed

I’ve hit the picture limit so will post the last few pics in another post now...

Good to see one out of the mould ok, looks great, with the ever increasing size of screens now I would think that more owners will want your dash aswell. I also cant see any reason why any existing owners wanting to upgrade their electronics package would not be able to retro fit this moulding, this would of course be a good way to get back some of your development costs. Looking forward to seeing it fully dressed.

 

[jfm]

Ops, in this case they must be the 0.70 sqm fins, not the 1.0 sqm I mentioned in my reply to MYAG.
That's what I assumed based on the previous measures in your post #91, which I noticed because they seemed really huge, even for such ship.
...not that the 0.70 sqm fin is small, of course!

The sizes in my post above were approximate MapisM but I've just checked and I'm not sure whether they are fitting the 0.7 or the 1.0sqm. The 0.7s are 1334mm long and 642mm deep, btw. The shafts are 65dia not 60. I'll check on the fin area and let you know. Both the 0.7 and 1.0 are fittable to those shafts so if the ones fitted turned out to be wrong they could be swapped easily

 

[jfm]

What will you do if the stabs want work well as planned JFM? Do you have a back up plan to remold the spray rails, and remove the tabs?

It is incredibly unlikely they won't work PYB. Fins stabs is not a new idea obviously; Sliepner have made several sets and had them running including on Princess 78; Sunseeker have put fins on fast boats 80 foot-ish as a cost option for several years; Olesinski specified the hull lay up. What's to go wrong?!

But ultimately I could remove them and fill in the holes and remould the spray rails. Or fit a different make. Not difficult things to do for a good shipyard. I don't expect to though

 

[jfm]

Thats fine, its a fair question, not massive experience but 3 weeks on a s/s 82 yacht last year, after which I swore my next boat would have stabs. More recently, 2 different s/s 80 yachts during their sea trials, one of which I spent the whole day on board with the ABT engineers and experienced the commission and calibration of the system from start to finish, at anchor, at D and P speeds. The boats achieved their numbers and in 4 ft chop. I assumed the SQ78 would be comparable to the Y80 for this purpose? Why would it not?

I believe the beam on JFM's 78 would be sufficient to prevent fin wash/turbulence upsetting the water flow to the props. It certainly does on the Y80. I dont understand your drag comparison of the FB racing hull (stepped?) to the DV hull of the SQ78 or any other similar hull?

re: consumption, you are of course technically right for the conditions you describe, and if you were lucky enough to spend all your cruising time in those conditions, then yes, you would ultimately save some fuel w/o stabs fitted! But really, how much fuel? When I say "negligible", I mean in the context that you are burning over 600 lt/h in these boats at WOT anyway, personally, I wouldn't care or even be able to calculate the saving.

Not sure what your doubt is regarding the hulls? The fins for fast P hulls are specified much smaller than those needed for DP hulls of the same length in order to achieve similar results. This allows them to act faster and with higher speed creating more lift, countering the roll much earlier in the cycle. I have not compared them, but the guys from ABT said that DV planing hulls fitted with fin stabs worked better to control roll at zero speed than DP hulls but worked similarly when underway.

On the 82Y, I didnt experience the level of noise that made me want to change cabins. Yes you can hear the actuators operate, but its faint and no more annoying than a chilled a/c fan operating, or indeed the genny hum at night. s/s place either a sofa or a chest of drawers directly over the access to the actuator cover and fit dense foam pyramids to the underside and sides, similar to the material cladding an accoustic chamber. You could do more of course.

Overall, I have spent quite some time investigating the types of stabs out there, pro/cons and performance of different principles and brands. I was suitably impressed to invest in a 6 figure sum to have ABT TRAC STAR fins and thrusters specified on my new boat.

Yup I'd agree that the fuel burn increase will be negligible in the grand scheme. It depends on speed of course, but I am very much an 18knot cruiser (what's the rush?) and only perhaps 10% of my cruising is at say 23 knots and almost none at say 28 knots. And in addition to all that I do some long passages at D speed. So I think the increased fuel burn will be fine, less significant than barnacles on the props

Remember also that you get increased fuel burn from gyro stabs too. They add something like 2 tonnes to the disp. On a boat like the Sq78 that wasn't designed around them they are too far aft so they add ballast to the bow to compensate, hence even more weight. 2+ tonnes on a also costs you a knot for sure, and indeed Lozzer on this forum who captianed the second of the two Sq78s that have had gyros reports more speed loss than that

There is trade off here with fin size. you want big fins for zero speed stabilisation and small fins at speed. Some compromise is necessary. On a superyacht you can have quantums where the fin telescopes inside itself and can change from small to big for at-anchor work. But this isn't feasible in an 80 footer set up

On noise I'll report back. I'm a very good sleeper, could sleep thru a bomb going off, so they wont worry me, but they might annoy others. I expect they will be mostly drowned out by airco blowers and stuff. Generally with hydrualics the noise is at the pump end not the linear actuators (though rotary actuators, motors, are noisy, but they are not used on stabs). In the Sq78 the genset is very quiet at night becuase you have the athwartships fuel tanks and the bathroom twixt e/room and owner's cabin, and my fin stabs are installed under the floor of the owner's bathroom (stbd side) and deressing room/walk-in wardrobe (port side) which makes them one step removed from the bedroom. As well as the actuators I have solenoid valves in the bathroom/wardrobe and those might make a noise, in which case insulation can be added. But I'll report back.

And again, gyros make loads of noise. You have more load on the genset, hydraulic valves and actuators, and the whine of the spinning gyro gadget. So more actual sources of noise, but further away from the master cabin

 

[jfm]

I recently heard reports of a couple of installations, on a 85' and a 68'. In the first (where the actuators are located in the e/r), the hydraulic pistons movements are perceivable but not so annoying. In the latter (where they're located in the mid cabin area, as in jfm boat), the noise is bad enough to move to another cabin in search of some sleep, according to a person who heard them running with the engines turned off (as they normally are, when the stabs are used at rest).

Interesting MapisM. I'll definitely report back next year, and hope MYAG will be able to do likewise regarding his TRAC stabs

 

[jfm]

Good to see one out of the mould ok, looks great, with the ever increasing size of screens now I would think that more owners will want your dash aswell. I also cant see any reason why any existing owners wanting to upgrade their electronics package would not be able to retro fit this moulding, this would of course be a good way to get back some of your development costs. Looking forward to seeing it fully dressed.

It looks great Tom. The finish out of the mould was perfect - high gloss everywhere and not a ripple anywhere. John is a top top patternmaker!

I hope they'll be able to do the second project I was about to ask them to do (?)

FWIW, it would be hard for this to be retrofitted to an existing Sq78. The flybridge seat box on my boat is being placed in a different postion (150mm to stbd of the standard position) to line up with the new steering wheel location (I've swapped the driver/navigator positions from the stnadard ayout). That would need doing to any refitted boat. It would be possible to do, but not easy

 

[MapisM]

Thats fine, its a fair question, not massive experience but 3 weeks on a s/s 82 yacht last year, after which I swore my next boat would have stabs. More recently, 2 different s/s 80 yachts during their sea trials, one of which I spent the whole day on board with the ABT engineers and experienced the commission and calibration of the system from start to finish, at anchor, at D and P speeds. The boats achieved their numbers and in 4 ft chop. I assumed the SQ78 would be comparable to the Y80 for this purpose? Why would it not?

Chapeau!

I believe the beam on JFM's 78 would be sufficient to prevent fin wash/turbulence upsetting the water flow to the props. It certainly does on the Y80. I dont understand your drag comparison of the FB racing hull (stepped?) to the DV hull of the SQ78 or any other similar hull?

It wasn't meant as an apple to apple comparison of course, but just as an example of how high speed can be affected by something whose effect at D speed makes not one iota of difference.

The fins for fast P hulls are specified much smaller than those needed for DP hulls of the same length in order to achieve similar results.

Really? What ABT models/fins were fitted on those 80 footers? The fins we're talking about for this Sq78 are pretty much comparable with those fitted on SD vessels of comparable length, but with much higher displacement.

On the 82Y, I didnt experience the level of noise that made me want to change cabins.

Good to know, because the negative reports (noise-wise) I was talking about were also related to the TRAC STAR equipment, and the guy who heard them was a bit worried because he's fitting them on his new boat. If some insulation is enough, he has no reason to worry. Maybe it wasn't there (or not enough) in the boat where he heard them.

 

[aquapower]

I hope they'll be able to do the second project I was about to ask them to do (?)

This wont be a problem, will email you over the weekend to let you know the current situation, John is looking forward to another challenge.

 

[MYAG]

Really? What ABT models/fins were fitted on those 80 footers? The fins we're talking about for this Sq78 are pretty much comparable with those fitted on SD vessels of comparable length, but with much higher displacement.

That might well be, but it does not mean they will work as well or any better. A planing hull will roll more easily than a DP hull, which also means that it takes less force to correct the roll on a planing hull, hence smaller fins will do. If your boat has a keel, flat sections, larger displacement etc then it will naturally resist roll, which means it will also naturally resist correction of roll, requiring larger fins for correction at slow or zero speeds or less effectiveness with same sized fins.

The ABT model fitted to the 80Y's is the 250 with 7.5x fins.

 

[jfm]

I visited the factory again at end of last week (17/9/2010) so have a few more pictures to share for those still following the plot. The build is going well and the plan is still to have the boat finished and “signed off” by the factory at end of November/earlyish December. That’s only 10 weeks or so and I’ve realised I now need to get started on things like registration, ordering cushions and deck furniture, etc. Overall I remain very happy indeed with the build. They are doing a fantastic job and the attention to detail and quality of workmanship is outstanding. There’s a real sense that the guys building it care, and enjoy the challenge of doing the non-standard aspects, and have huge pride in getting things right even when they know their work will be hidden from customer’s view behind panels or whatever (though not in my case: I will get behind most of the panels due to being like a kid who has to take things apart ). First pic is general view

The aft deck teak capping rails were being fitted when I was there. I have asked for them to be 50mm higher than standard – my boat is in foreground and standard height rails are on the boat in the background

Below is saloon looking aft. Oak bulkhead on port side divides saloon and galley – it’s normally glazed but mine is solid (32mm ply!) because I’m having extra kitchen cupboards where the glazing would go. On the saloon side I’ve asked www.latitudekinsale.com to make a 3D chart (in white, not the yellow/blue ones) of the straits of Bonifacio, with white LED lighting, and Fairline are running the wire and fitting a switch for the lights. In the second pic below you can see the glass sliding sportscruiser-style door fitted for the internal staircase

Below is inside of one of the two pantograph opening doors. I asked them to do the inside gelcoat black, which is the first time they’ve done that, and it looks fab (the surrounding fnishes will mostly be black/dark, when all made). They did an utterly perfect line between the black and white gelcoat. There’s an electric lock/unlock mechanism inside the lower half of the door.

Next two pictures are master cabin bathroom. First shows bath installed. Far end concave wall will have mosaic tiles in a mix of bronze-ish colours. Second pic is the bar where the basin will go. This has all been built to accommodate the stabilisers. The bar unit is deeper than standard, so its foot print completely covers the stabiliser, and the three cupboard carcasses at the bottom all come out very easily, like cassettes, to access the mechanism. This was a nice bit of design I thought, because it gives easy enough stabiliser access and the whole cupboard assembly (in veneered marine ply) puts even more sound insulation on top of the stabiliser actuator. Note also the bulkhead twixt bathroom and bedroom is 32mm ply, for nice rigidity and even more sound insulation

Pic below shows master cabin bed, or rather the extra fuel tank underneath it. They were connecting all the fuel plumbing when I was there, all in “hydraulic grade” piping because there is nearly 4m of static head here caused by the standard fuel tanks being higher) plus of course extra pressure if the boat hits the bottom of wave troughs. The black box on the bulkhead (which will be under the pillows of the bed) is the stabiliser gyro/accelerometer box/computer pack

Next 3 pics show flybridge and close up of the glass door at top of stairs.

The pic below shows a close up of one of the two hydraulic rack/pinion motors that folds the bimini. This is a really nice job. The hydraulics push/pull cylinder moves the rack, which turns the pinion, to fold the bimini. All the hydraulic hoses are led inside the chunky s/steel arch tube (it’s oval section tube), apart from the two little pipes you can see, that are covered in s/steel woven mesh.

By the way, the teak decks are from Wattsons and afaik they are now using Equadorian teak because supplies are running out in Burma. They say the Equador teak is slow grown and has the right sort of fine grain and oil content. Here’s a close up. It looks fine to me, and if anyone knows any more about this wood, and how it might be different from Burmese teak, please comment

The 2 pics below show crew cabin. It’s L shaped and you enter it as shown in the first pic then turn 90deg right to get to where the second pic shows – black cable drum in both pics will help you get your bearings. There is also a conversion mod so one of the single beds converts to a double. In the second pic, the door on the right is to a shower room.

Laundry taking shape! (this is aft part of boat, along the port side). By the way, I would have preferred s/steel units but Miele don’t make a vented tumble drier in s/steel, only white. I wanted a vented drier, vented out of the boat, because they work loads better than condenser driers and use less energy

Next is E/room. There’s a Reverso oil system, plumbed to both engines, gearboxes, and gensets. You turn various valves, switch on a pump, and the thing pumps out old oil or pumps in new oil, without you having to lug the oil drums to the actual machinery

Finally, they had just starting fitting the panels/instruments to the upstairs dash. The painted panels made by Axon had just arrived. Only the small one had been fitted, pictured below. These panels are really nice. They’re painted in Mercedes Cubanite Silver, which is silver with a hint of beige. (it’s actually less yellowy/gold than the pic below). There are matching Carling switch actuators. The rest of this dash will be finished in a week or so and I’ll post another pic when done.

 

[BrendanS]

There’s a real sense that the guys building it care, and enjoy the challenge of doing the non-standard aspects, and have huge pride in getting things right even when they know their work will be hidden from customer’s view behind panels or whatever

I can imagine they are very proud, and would far rather do custom stuff than just run of mill, so they can show how good they are.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I think I've learnt more from this thread than from most of the others combined - it's absolutely fascinating. Fairline must be aware that they've got a very competent engineer and a good project manager, combined within an experienced and demanding boat-owner with a rather sharp legal mind and a lot of contacts in the industry. I'm sure they're pretty good normally but I would bet the Bottle of Krug to Launch it that it is getting extra special attention.

The main thing that strikes me is how long it will take the next owner to understand this boat - we're looking at a two month handover really I reckon.

 

[Mr Googler]

As ever absolutely fantastic to see all this and so pleased for you.

I do however think you have missed another lumishore opportunity. That bubbly bath is crying out for a big light in it. May get a bit warm though

Best wishes for the closing stages and I hope Fairline are aware visitors at LIBS will need to wear two pairs of overshoes when coming aboard

 

[Nick_H]

Wow, really taking shape. I think you'll gain so much from having been so closely involved with the build when something goes wrong, as it invariably will.

Are you having lights integrated into the bimini frame? I'm planning to retrofit these (if we keep the Princess) so we can use the flybridge more in the evenings.

 

[jfm]

Are you having lights integrated into the bimini frame? I'm planning to retrofit these (if we keep the Princess) so we can use the flybridge more in the evenings.

Yup, they are fitting lights (about 8 downlighters) in the bimini, with all the wires threaded through the s/steel tubeworks and a switch on the dash

You should definitely keep the princess

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

jfm, I dont know whether its been mentioned on the thread but did you consider fitting the Seatorque shaft system http://seatorque.com/ in your new boat? At SIBS yesterday, we happened to get talking to Tony Fleming and he's now fitting them to his 55 model and he reports a 1 - 1.5kt speed increase compared to standard shafts which on a 15-17kt boat is quite a significant efficiency improvement.
New boat looks fab. Will I be able to tramp all over it at LIBS or Dusseldorf 2011?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yup, they are fitting lights (about 8 downlighters) in the bimini, with all the wires threaded through the s/steel tubeworks and a switch on the dash

You should definitely keep the princess

What kind of lights are you fitting and how do they attach to the frame? I'm interested myself as like Nick H, our f/b is a bit gloomy at night

 

[Nick_H]

Mike, Flexicovers do a package with all the required bits to install them. Not much on their web site about it, but there is a picture on the hydraulic bimini page of some lights installed.

http://www.flexicovers.co.uk/Bimini-Hydraulics.asp

 

[jfm]

Mike, Flexicovers do a package with all the required bits to install them. Not much on their web site about it, but there is a picture on the hydraulic bimini page of some lights installed.

http://www.flexicovers.co.uk/Bimini-Hydraulics.asp

Mike/Nick
Yes the Fairline bimini is the Flexicovers product. The lights are a standard Fairline option, so I haven't looked into them much or specced them specially. I therefore don't know exactly the spec, As Nick says there are pics on Flexicovers website, and here is a pic of a 2009 Fairline 78 (taken from a secondhand boat for sale ad) showing the lights

 

[DougH]

John,

All looks great from the pictures.

Just noticed that you have a fuel tank under the master bed.

We have the same set up and find that the return hot fuel makes the tank very hot, even though it is as the bottom of the boat.

Because this made for an uncomfortable heated mattress I am now having Return Fuel Coolers fitted by Sunseeker Estrella.

Have you got this covered?

Doug