Boat in build pics (Squadron 78)

Deleted User said:
jfm, I dont know whether its been mentioned on the thread but did you consider fitting the Seatorque shaft system http://seatorque.com/ in your new boat? At SIBS yesterday, we happened to get talking to Tony Fleming and he's now fitting them to his 55 model and he reports a 1 - 1.5kt speed increase compared to standard shafts which on a 15-17kt boat is quite a significant efficiency improvement.
New boat looks fab. Will I be able to tramp all over it at LIBS or Dusseldorf 2011?:)
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I had a good look at the fleming 65 at the show and saw the SeaTorque system.

It wasn't feasible to include them on my boat. I was ordering the boat literally 2 weeks before the hull went into the mould and Fairline were about to order all the P brackets and shafts within literally a few weeks. There was no time to review the engineering of fitting SeaTorque, especially because Fairline's engineering team had to run off and do the engineering work (with Olesinski's help) to design the stabiliser installation, and they had to include the hull reinforcement as the hull was being moulded, obviously, so time was tight. There was no time to consider SeaTorque, purely for these practical reasons

I'm slightly sceptical about SeaTorque. There is less drag because you are dragging a stationary cylinder thru the water not a spinning shaft, but that cylinder is bigger diameter necessarily. So it's kinda one step forward and one step back, intuitively. If there is some science behind why there is less drag I'd like to see the proof. Some fluid mechanics maths would do the trick. But it's marketed like ultrasonic a/f, which is "it works and you just have to trust us".

As for claims of 1.5kt I'd want to know the conditions. Same boat with SeaTorque retrofitted, or two different hulls of the same boat series? etc.
 
DougH said:
John,

All looks great from the pictures.

Just noticed that you have a fuel tank under the master bed.

We have the same set up and find that the return hot fuel makes the tank very hot, even though it is as the bottom of the boat.

Because this made for an uncomfortable heated mattress I am now having Return Fuel Coolers fitted by Sunseeker Estrella.

Have you got this covered?

Doug
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Doug
Smart stuff! This forum is a great resource for technical knowledge! But yes, that has been taken into account. My system allows any of the 4 diesel engines to draw/return from any of the 3 tanks. There are a zillion valves to turn to choose the draw/return/isolate/link parameters, with a map and labelling of the valves for me to follow. My default setting will be to run the three tanks as one virtual tank or to isolate the under-bed tank as a reserve. Either way, in default mode the engines will return hot fuel to the main tanks, not to the under bed tank. Even if the tanks are left connected as one virtual tank, the hot returned diesel will not enter the under-bed tank becuase hot fluid stay at the top (my main tanks are above the underbed tank). So my underbed fuel should always be cold.

There's one exeption which is when the main tanks are empty and I'm running totally on the underbed tank, ie my last 1500 litres out of 7500. Then the hot fuel would by default return to the underbed tank, but I could still twiddle valves to make it return to the main tanks (though I'd have to switch the engines to draw from the main tanks once the underbed tank had emptied - that's lightly less conveneint in that I'd have to switch over tanks midway during the burning of that last 1500litres). Overall though, running on the last 1500 litres is pretty rare circumstnaces,

All in all, I therefore never need return hot fuel to the under bed tank, so didn't bother with coolers

(Good idea in winter though to take heat from the engines and transfer it to your bed!)
 
FARSCO said:
I do however think you have missed another lumishore opportunity. That bubbly bath is crying out for a big light in it. May get a bit warm though ;)

Best wishes for the closing stages and I hope Fairline are aware visitors at LIBS will need to wear two pairs of overshoes when coming aboard :)
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Tee hee. I stayed in a hotel (in Corsica, iirc) that had RGB lighting in the bath. It did occur to me to put it in the boat but I'm not sure enough about it to ask Fairline to fit it. Where does one draw the bling/non-bling line, eh? :D But there is a removeable access panel at end of bath so it's an easy retrofit :-)

You are very welcome (well, so far as I'm concerned - it isn't my stand) to tramp all over the boat at LIBS. I hope to be there for a couple of days of LIBS so will show you around.
 
DougH said:
Because this made for an uncomfortable heated mattress I am now having Return Fuel Coolers fitted
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That's a good idea regardless of the tanks placement.
On long cruises, the fuel temperature continues to progressively increase in the tanks, and aside from heating the rest of the boat that's not good for the engines, in the first place.
That's the first upgrade I made on my boat when I bought her.
 
jfm said:
As for claims of 1.5kt I'd want to know the conditions.
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Well, I for one don't even want to know the conditions: I don't trust those claims, period.
That said, I think that ST is a great product and I surely would spec it if I were building a new boat, but I wouldn't expect miracles from it.
 
MapisM said:
Well, I for one don't even want to know the conditions: I don't trust those claims, period.
That said, I think that ST is a great product and I surely would spec it if I were building a new boat, but I wouldn't expect miracles from it.
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I'm curious! What benefits would you expect from it? And roughly what is the cost for say 2x1000hp installation?
 
MapisM said:
That's a good idea regardless of the tanks placement.
On long cruises, the fuel temperature continues to progressively increase in the tanks, and aside from heating the rest of the boat that's not good for the engines, in the first place.
That's the first upgrade I made on my boat when I bought her.
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Are you sure? The engines draw from bottom of tank (cold fuel) and the returns (hot fuel) go to top of tank,. The hot/cold fuel doesn't mix, much, same as your hot water tank

Of course the fuel does get warm due to ambient temperature of the engine room, assuming your tanks are in the engine room, which most are. Return fuel coolers don't stop that heat transfer. If you want cold fuel in your engines you need to cool the feed line, not the retrun line. The only logic for return fuel coolers is DougH's, which is to stop his bed getting too warm.

If, unusually on ~24m stuff, your fuel tanks are not in the engine room, then fuel return coolers make sense to keep the fuel feed to the engines cool

IMHO!
 
Wow! One thing - why does the Reverso oil change unit need to be mounted on rubber bearers? I thought it would have been isolated from any mechanical load except when you were actually changing the oil.
 
Philiz said:
Right, I think we've got the gist of what the tender is going to look like, when are they starting work on the boat?? :)

Only kiddin' JFM, very interesting stuff, keep it coming please.
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Thought you'd be out there polishing and buffing after winning the MBY cleaning gear for your photo :D
 
jfm said:
As for claims of 1.5kt I'd want to know the conditions. Same boat with SeaTorque retrofitted, or two different hulls of the same boat series? etc.
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That's what Tony Fleming said and I dont think he would have any axe to grind on SeaTorque. It ties in with figures I've seen quoted of about 7% efficiency improvement. One other factor in it's favour, according to Fleming, is that because it's rubber mounted to the hull and has a flexible coupling to the gearbox, he can dispense with the expensive Aquadrive flexible mountings that he usually mounts his engines on. Also, according to him, because there's no sterngland, the bilges remain absolutely dry.
The fact that he's fitting SeaTorque stuff to his boats kinda gives it legitimacy in my eyes. As for cost. I really dont know but when I investigated it for my last boat, figures of £15-20k were being thrown around. Obviously on a new boat installation, you would save by not having to supply a standard prop shaft and sterngland (and Aquadrive mounts if fitted). I concluded that the fuel cost saving was nowhere near enough to justify me buying the system but if you intend doing mega miles over several years, maybe it makes financial sense
 
Had a quick look when passing the sq78 at the show on sunday and wondered if it was sold/finnished as it looked a bit incomplete from the out side, is it awaiting final spec?

I looked in the engineroom on the nordhavn 47 and that had one of those reverso systems connected to main engine, wing engine and generator, it looks a good bit of kit and im sure it will make the engineers job a lot easier.
 
aquapower said:
Had a quick look when passing the sq78 at the show on sunday and wondered if it was sold/finnished as it looked a bit incomplete from the out side, is it awaiting final spec?
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Yes it's sold, to a long term famous boater who has several boats, and it is going to Australia right after the show. It didn't have much aft deck furniture and it was ordered without jetski or crane, so that made it look a bit spartan. They obviously look better with aft deck furniture and cushions etc. Inside was complete and ready to roll
 
jfm said:
You are very welcome (well, so far as I'm concerned - it isn't my stand) to tramp all over the boat at LIBS. I hope to be there for a couple of days of LIBS so will show you around.
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Thats a very kind offer John.

I can see it now. 2 lines of people queueing. One full of interested buyers about 100 long and another 200 long full of formites waiting for the personal tour with the owner:)

Mind you fellow formites, like you no doubt, will want to take the interior apart to look at all the lovely bits hidden away. Be great to see the salemens faces though as cushions go flying about followed by ooooo and arrrrrh :)

ps how do you put in a grin icon????? I can only do three :( .......thats one of them
 
Sea Torque

Here are some numbers that we were sent, not confidential (I hope).

Identical Sport fish 64' , same engines, one with conventional shafts the other with Sea Torques.

All our range now come with option of Sea Torques, new 70 in build has them spec'd will arrive next year so interesting to see the results, owner more enthused about the lower vibration and no maintainance than fuel burn although that too is a consideraton when you are going trans Atlantic.


ENGINE LOAD RESULTS

Average Average % +/-

Without With

1800 82 79.25 -3%
2000 88.75 84.25 -5%
2050 90.5 85.25 -6%
2100 92.25 87.25 -5%
2200 92.25 89.75 -3%
2300 98 95.25 -3%

Average Load Drop -4%

CRUISE Engine
64 SPORTFISH Before/After SCS ENGINE LOAD DATA
4%-6% Average DECREASE in Engine Loads
MTU 16V2000M91 2000HP
Veem Propeller 40x50x5
Displacement 109,000 lbs

RPM GPH Before GPH after Fuel Burn
Average Average Decrease
1800 121 118 -3%
2000 146 138 -5%
2050 153 144 -6%
2100 162 153 -6%
2200 178 166 -7%
2300 192 186 -3%
2350 194
CRUISE DECREASE IN -5%
FUEL BURN
 
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