BartW
Well-Known Member
Let me know if she is still/ again for sale, Odvar had a deal on a price, a lot less than asking price. If so, I'll PM you the details that I know.
Boat Hunting for Liveaboard in Dubai
- Thread starter WorstCase
- Start date
Let me know if she is still/ again for sale, Odvar had a deal on a price, a lot less than asking price. If so, I'll PM you the details that I know.
BartW
Well-Known Member
OP wants to have a estimation on the running cost of a 70ft boat,
I don’t mind to write my experience here instead of a PM
Some others might add other usefull info
OP is not interested in mooring and fuel cost, as this seems to be much less in the middle east then what we are used to in the med,
Actually his is the biggest chunk of our annual cost.
Other costs we have:
- Lift in / out and antifouling: 5000 euro/year
- Engine and genny maintenance, we mostly did ourselves, approx. 2000 euro for filters and oil, but in Italy it was 5000 euro done by MAN service
- You might have occasional repairs, when you need a specialist for the passerel, or airco, or desalinator, or any pump’s, or nav electronics, …. You will pay multiples of 1K on each occasion, … difficult to budget. (we are mostly able to repair or manage ourselves at minimal cost)
- Then we do upgrades every year, such as: rear steps, transom door, Hilo platform, stabilisers, bigger invertors, crew cabin referb, floors and ceilings refurb, galley upgrades,
Price varying between 10k euro and 80k euro / year, but that can be done according your own wishes/ budget, not much of that is obligatory
- We also spend quite some money on flight tickets to the boat (with friends for working) never made the sums
- At the moment I’m in a huge engine rebuild, this could have been avoided with better preventive maintenance, price is not relevant, (approx 65k) expensive because rebuild is quite drastic, cheap because boat is in Montenegro,…
I don’t mind to write my experience here instead of a PM
Some others might add other usefull info
OP is not interested in mooring and fuel cost, as this seems to be much less in the middle east then what we are used to in the med,
Actually his is the biggest chunk of our annual cost.
Other costs we have:
- Lift in / out and antifouling: 5000 euro/year
- Engine and genny maintenance, we mostly did ourselves, approx. 2000 euro for filters and oil, but in Italy it was 5000 euro done by MAN service
- You might have occasional repairs, when you need a specialist for the passerel, or airco, or desalinator, or any pump’s, or nav electronics, …. You will pay multiples of 1K on each occasion, … difficult to budget. (we are mostly able to repair or manage ourselves at minimal cost)
- Then we do upgrades every year, such as: rear steps, transom door, Hilo platform, stabilisers, bigger invertors, crew cabin referb, floors and ceilings refurb, galley upgrades,
Price varying between 10k euro and 80k euro / year, but that can be done according your own wishes/ budget, not much of that is obligatory
- We also spend quite some money on flight tickets to the boat (with friends for working) never made the sums
- At the moment I’m in a huge engine rebuild, this could have been avoided with better preventive maintenance, price is not relevant, (approx 65k) expensive because rebuild is quite drastic, cheap because boat is in Montenegro,…
WorstCase
Well-Known Member
this is great help.
Here's some details of the budget (as per local conditions):
5,500 EUR/year berthing (23mt X 240eur/mt) this includes water and electricity but will probably be subject to negotiation once liveaboard status is discussed with the marina
5,500 EUR/year Insurance
195 EUR/year Stamp
8,400 EUR/year non-liveaboard crew (they're there when you need them, clean the boat regularly, do small maintenance, help when you go cruising, cook)
7,200 EUR/year regular maintenance such as anti-fouling, oil changes, filters. Anti fouling can be greatly extended by using divers who are readily available and the crew package above does include hull cleaning every now and then. Will double check the cost for the lift.
This would leave around 25k/year for other things such as upgrades or bad luck (fund fed in monthly installments)
Cruising I am budgeting separately.
As far as purchasing the boat, I am trying to figure out the cost of two major items: shipping and A/C upgrade. Unfortunately these impact my purchasing power but cannot be part of any negotiation with the seller really.
Here's some details of the budget (as per local conditions):
5,500 EUR/year berthing (23mt X 240eur/mt) this includes water and electricity but will probably be subject to negotiation once liveaboard status is discussed with the marina
5,500 EUR/year Insurance
195 EUR/year Stamp
8,400 EUR/year non-liveaboard crew (they're there when you need them, clean the boat regularly, do small maintenance, help when you go cruising, cook)
7,200 EUR/year regular maintenance such as anti-fouling, oil changes, filters. Anti fouling can be greatly extended by using divers who are readily available and the crew package above does include hull cleaning every now and then. Will double check the cost for the lift.
This would leave around 25k/year for other things such as upgrades or bad luck (fund fed in monthly installments)
Cruising I am budgeting separately.
As far as purchasing the boat, I am trying to figure out the cost of two major items: shipping and A/C upgrade. Unfortunately these impact my purchasing power but cannot be part of any negotiation with the seller really.
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mcyachts
New Member
Hello,
I am happy to participate to the conversation as a boat enthusiast.
I got the pleasure to have met Bart a few years ago and he is really good advice.
How far have you gone in your search ? I can help you too with it as I am actually in Dubai for a little time before going back to Europe.
Hope to talk to you soon.
Regards
Marc
I am happy to participate to the conversation as a boat enthusiast.
I got the pleasure to have met Bart a few years ago and he is really good advice.
How far have you gone in your search ? I can help you too with it as I am actually in Dubai for a little time before going back to Europe.
Hope to talk to you soon.
Regards
Marc
WorstCase
Well-Known Member
I think all infos are in place now. I am only still have some doubts about the quality of the experience... I wish there was an easier way to test things before embarking in the whole process. Unfortunately here the market is so limited there is really nothing I would buy as a test. So still not 100% sure
Bertramdriver
Well-Known Member
Spend a few thousand on a two week skippered charter on a boat roughly the size you're thinking of in the Med...there's plenty around. Over the two weeks you'll have the chance to experience a " live aboard life", talk to people with real experience of bigger boats and begin to understand the complexity of bigger boat systems. Then go away and rethink your plans. FWIW I bought a (then) 25 year old boat at what I thought was an amazingly low price. 10 years later we have spent more than the purchase price again on upgrades, repairs and maintenance.
Good luck
WorstCase
Well-Known Member
Just a quick update.
Few days back I had a chance to visit a boat in Dubai, comes with berthing (bit of a rarity in DXB) paid until feb.
Very different boat from the ones listed previously but wanted to check it anyway as the space and layout seemed inetersting, although I was not considering boats of this type... its a Cheoy Lee 60ish with three cabins, master aft, separate galley, and separate dinette. Very spacious indeed with two of the cabins being full beam.
Engine room is also very spacious and tall, all spaces have very good height. Flybridge is huge.
Cruising speed around 15kn, as per what the current owner says.
It ticks a lot of boxes but I am alittle bit off guard as its really a totally different boat from what I had in mind. Interestingly enough some friends who I would consider boating experts, mentioned trawlers immediately as soon as I explained what my plan for living aboard was...
Any thoughts?
Few days back I had a chance to visit a boat in Dubai, comes with berthing (bit of a rarity in DXB) paid until feb.
Very different boat from the ones listed previously but wanted to check it anyway as the space and layout seemed inetersting, although I was not considering boats of this type... its a Cheoy Lee 60ish with three cabins, master aft, separate galley, and separate dinette. Very spacious indeed with two of the cabins being full beam.
Engine room is also very spacious and tall, all spaces have very good height. Flybridge is huge.
Cruising speed around 15kn, as per what the current owner says.
It ticks a lot of boxes but I am alittle bit off guard as its really a totally different boat from what I had in mind. Interestingly enough some friends who I would consider boating experts, mentioned trawlers immediately as soon as I explained what my plan for living aboard was...
Any thoughts?
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D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
In my limited experience, Cheoy Lee boats are generally thought of as being very solidly built boats
davids0865
Well-Known Member
+1, spent some time on a 50(ish)ft in Barcelona a few years back and really rarther liked it.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
You need to work out
How much living Vs how much actual boating .
Which one is more important .
Having then established the % of boating then what type of boating --- either
1-planning or potential to plane 20 knot plus ( but you could Pootle @ 9 knots ). You choose ?
2- displacement. allways below 12 or 9 knots or what ever ??
You previous Italien prospectives boats have been planning .
How much living Vs how much actual boating .
Which one is more important .
Having then established the % of boating then what type of boating --- either
1-planning or potential to plane 20 knot plus ( but you could Pootle @ 9 knots ). You choose ?
2- displacement. allways below 12 or 9 knots or what ever ??
You previous Italien prospectives boats have been planning .
WorstCase
Well-Known Member
From what I can predict the majority will be living.
As far as the boating is concerned the spots are all fairly close by here... I will need more information on boating in the UAE but generally speaking things are in the range of 10 to 35nm max.
Dubai and Abu Dhabi have lots of very nice spots in very close range from main marinas...
It is very difficult to predict not having much experience but my feeling is there are things to do within the range of distance you feel like traveling.
Having mentioned a max speed of 18kn for the boat in its current condition, could it be the hull is actually semi-displacement?
What I am struggling with is the looks... (excuse the shallowness...) inside i really love the boaty feeling of the woodwork and it feels really cozy and nice. Outside...well... Im wondering how to possibly improve the exterior looks to a point I would actually like it
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WorstCase
Well-Known Member
BartW
Well-Known Member
Its a nice boat but,
At that time 5yago, we had the same dilemma, My first idea was to buy a Trawler fe hateras or similar, but my family didnt like it, They (wife and kids) still don't, they often laugh when they see a trawler telling look at that, that's the kind of ugly thing daddy wanted to have .
But i have to admid that I' m very pleased with what we have chosen at that time, we sail her 50/50 time. 10/20knots, and really like this.
Be carefull with max spead figures, the boat can probably achieve 18kn at light loaded and clean bottom, but you don't want to sail any boat at its max speed for longer than a few minutes. I guess fast cruising speed of that SD boat is 13..16 kn more likely. Think hard what you would like, especially in a region where fuel price is no issue !
At that time 5yago, we had the same dilemma, My first idea was to buy a Trawler fe hateras or similar, but my family didnt like it, They (wife and kids) still don't, they often laugh when they see a trawler telling look at that, that's the kind of ugly thing daddy wanted to have .
But i have to admid that I' m very pleased with what we have chosen at that time, we sail her 50/50 time. 10/20knots, and really like this.
Be carefull with max spead figures, the boat can probably achieve 18kn at light loaded and clean bottom, but you don't want to sail any boat at its max speed for longer than a few minutes. I guess fast cruising speed of that SD boat is 13..16 kn more likely. Think hard what you would like, especially in a region where fuel price is no issue !
WorstCase
Well-Known Member
The good points are a lot to be honest, not to mention the boat is here and has a berth.
Boats like the ones discussed earlier in the thread are simply not available in this market. Bringing a boat from europe to here is perfectly doable but there is ample room for escalation in cost and delays and it might be months before the process is actually completed.
Also there are a lot of aspects of this plan to move aboard that are unclear simply because of lack of experience thus it is still difficult to really know what we would prefer (speed vs space, new vs old, galley up/down open/closed etc etc). After spending some time aboard this trawler I felt very comfortable and of course the issue of the exterior looks is less relevant as you dont see the boat once you're on it!
Asking price is in the 120ks.
If you consider the shipping costs which I will spare and 5% customs and brokerage... we're talking at least 50-60k I could direct to improvements... and that's only money that I would have to waste if I go the importing route... it just seems like such a *resonable* option...
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
Give them time, B. One day, they will be older and more experienced, they will also want to have a trawler, and your grandchildren will laugh at them!
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Absolutely.
BartW
Well-Known Member
they have'nt seen the "light" yet
...and your grandchildren will laugh at them!
we started working on that
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
LOL, yeah, I know.
How does E feels, sleeping with grandpa...?
...Just for sake of balance, you know!
WorstCase
Well-Known Member
I would need some help in getting a ballpark figure for some works before making an offer.
Attached you can see the existing layout and the changes I would like to make. some are more urgent than other.
The minimum changes would be closing the kitchen with a partition, create a storage laundry under the staircase to the fly bridge, and converting the master cabin to an office/meeting room.
Here the layout as is:
These are with the minimum set of changes I would need immediately:
- complete galley refurbishment (new appliances and new worktop, layout stays unchanged. wall cabinets will be taller
- carpeting in salon, dinette and all cabins on top of varnished parquet
- ceiling liners instead of varnished wood
- laundry/storage under the internal staircase to flybridge
- Kitchen partition/library
- Master bedroom converted to office (but re-convertible to bedroom with hi-lo table/bed base)
- New furniture for plates and glass instead of handrail to master bedroom
- new convertible settee in salon and dinette
- engine/genny/MEP checkup
Here's the full set of changes including all of the above plus:
- day head instead of laundry/storage
- modified transom to accommodate crew cabin, enclosed shower, and big laundry/storage accessible through panto door in transom
- hi-lo platform
- redesign of mid-ship cabin to master
- engines out overhaul and engine room refurbishment
- small jacuzzi in forward deck
Budget for immediate changes is 50k, for full mods another 100k EUR, reasonable?
Attached you can see the existing layout and the changes I would like to make. some are more urgent than other.
The minimum changes would be closing the kitchen with a partition, create a storage laundry under the staircase to the fly bridge, and converting the master cabin to an office/meeting room.
Here the layout as is:
These are with the minimum set of changes I would need immediately:
- complete galley refurbishment (new appliances and new worktop, layout stays unchanged. wall cabinets will be taller
- carpeting in salon, dinette and all cabins on top of varnished parquet
- ceiling liners instead of varnished wood
- laundry/storage under the internal staircase to flybridge
- Kitchen partition/library
- Master bedroom converted to office (but re-convertible to bedroom with hi-lo table/bed base)
- New furniture for plates and glass instead of handrail to master bedroom
- new convertible settee in salon and dinette
- engine/genny/MEP checkup
Here's the full set of changes including all of the above plus:
- day head instead of laundry/storage
- modified transom to accommodate crew cabin, enclosed shower, and big laundry/storage accessible through panto door in transom
- hi-lo platform
- redesign of mid-ship cabin to master
- engines out overhaul and engine room refurbishment
- small jacuzzi in forward deck
Budget for immediate changes is 50k, for full mods another 100k EUR, reasonable?
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jimmy_the_builder
Well-Known Member
Wow, those are pretty ambitious changes. Budget questions aside, I would have thought that your biggest issue will be finding the craftsmen to carry out work of this scale (modifying a boat is very much not like making changes to your house, for example) - unless you have a yard already in mind for the work?