Boat fixations

[john_morris_uk]

A YouTube film that landed in my suggested viewing list got me thinking. It’s a well-known YouTuber who is into sailing and has a fair amount of experience by all accounts. He produced a video on what boat to buy which is more like what things to look out for when you buy a boat with a certain price range. what struck me about the video was his absolute assistance that he would never buy a boat with only one wheel. It got me thinking about how fixed some people are in their preferences as regards sailing. I can’t imagine being without a chart table and I know some others who hate spade rudders. Lots of other examples.

The video I saw also had the Youtuber saying he wouldn’t buy any boat over a few years old as it would be uninsurable.

I’m not going to promote his YouTube channel but I wondered what the red flags are for others when it comes to buying a new or second hand boat?

 

[flaming]

Having fixations on boat type, or specific features, only ever makes sense in context with the use that the boat will be put to.

You wouldn't, for example, want a 2.5m torpedo keel on a boat that was primarily going to be used for East Coast family cruising.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Having fixations on boat type, or specific features, only ever makes sense in context with the use that the boat will be put to.

You wouldn't, for example, want a 2.5m torpedo keel on a boat that was primarily going to be used for East Coast family cruising.

True. Nor a draft of 3 metres to cruise the Bahamas.

But refusing to contemplate any boat with only one wheel? Bizarre IMHO.

 

[flaming]

True. Nor a draft of 3 metres to cruise the Bahamas.

But refusing to contemplate any boat with only one wheel? Bizarre IMHO.

Without knowing what his reasons were it's hard to comment. But if he's decided that he prefers two wheels, and fairly new boats, then in this day and age he has plenty to choose from.

 

[johnalison]

True. Nor a draft of 3 metres to cruise the Bahamas.

But refusing to contemplate any boat with only one wheel? Bizarre IMHO.

I agree bizarre, but I suspect that it is common for people to have obsessions with specific characteristics. When we last went shopping for a boat 25 yrs ago we had a hard time but each boat we boarded had a single item that ruled it out entirely, though different in each case. It might be something as trivial as heads that don't face fore-&-aft for some people.

I have only had one boat with a wheel, which was fine at the time, and I can see the advantages of twin wheels for some boats, but I think that if I were in the market for a boat in this size range I would have an open mind and judge each on its merits or otherwise.

 

[Poignard]

I don't even want one wheel - a tiller is just fine!

 

[Baggywrinkle]

As @flaming said, it all depends on your intended usage ... having recently bought a boat, this was my check-list which I used to end up with my new-to-me AWB.

Intended Usage ….

Mediteranean live aboard.
Extended cruising, don't sail to a fixed schedule, will avoid bad weather.
Mainly anchoring, avoid marinas, swimming & showering often.
No interest in northern/southern cold weather or heavy weather sailing.
Might do an ARC or go further afield.

Dealbreakers … MUST HAVES

12-13,99m LOA
White textured gelcoat decks.
Dry, clean bilges, no water under the floor, no leaks into bilges.
At least 3 private sleeping cabins (bunks OK) - sleep 6 in comfort without saloon.
Clean contemporary interior - must be bright and airy with plenty of windows and light.
Freezer or space for a freezer.
Chart Table/Desk - big enough for laptop/tablet.
No more than 2 heads.
Seperate shower cubicle that can be closed off - preferably no sink or toilet in shower area.
Roller furling main - furling from cockpit.
Twin helm with easy walkthrough into seating area.
Big aft cockpit - must seat at least 8 in comfort underway and 10+ for entertaining.
Big bimini/sprayhood - plenty of shade
Big, sturdy cockpit table
Swim platform or sugar scoop stern with swim ladder and shower.
Space for a Watermaker.
Engine with enough reserve power/space for additional high-output alternator or room for a generator.
Mainsheet/Boom clear of cockpit occupants.
Front Opening Fridge

Dealbreakers …. MUST NOT HAVE!!!

Teak Deck
Sun damaged caulking on cockpit teak causing black stains.
DIY disasters - random equipment/decorations fixed all over the inside of the boat.
Screw holes, discoloured veneer, damaged interior wood from removed equipment/decorations, hard use.
Damp/Mould/Leaks or bad smells.
Large repairs from accident damage (Grounding/Heavy collision)
Water damaged or rotten balsa core, exterior screws into balsa core, exposed balsa core, non-original deck fittings.
Keel problems (leaking or suspect keel bolts - ineffective keel sealant).
Moisture in the hull/deck or water ingress in the rudder
Water stained interior wood or signs of water ingress.
Leaking windows, vents, fittings.
Engine oil leaks/fluid leaks/smoke/starting problems
Electrical DIY disasters amateur wiring
Solar Panels glued or screwed to deck - holes in deck.
Extensive use of non-marine grade wire in electrical system.

Wanted features …. NICE TO HAVE

Teak in cockpit (if in good condition)
4th cabin with bunks.
L-shaped galley
White fiberglass hull, not painted or wrapped.
Built in last 10 years.
Master cabin with good view outside.
Main, genoa and code zero sheets/winches accessible from helm.
Engine control on binnacle, not floor.
Water Tankage over 400l.
Fuel tank around 200l.

Wanted Extras …. The more the merrier

Electric or Hydraulic bathing platform.
Big robust arch on stern with dinghy davits, solar, outboard crane.
Babystay fixing point on foredeck.
Cool box in cockpit or ability to fit one
Furling Code Zero or equivalent.
Folding Prop.
Radar
Bowthruster
Air Conditioning/Heating
Double anchor roller
Windlass drum usable with anchor locker closed.
Midship cleats and gates in guard rails.
Electric winches
Self tacking jib
Washing machine or space to fit one
Upgraded engine option
Windlass remote, Chain counter
Cockpit Tent

Not important if reflected in price ….

Condition of cooker
Condition of toilets
Condition of sails
Condition of sprayhood/bimini
Condition of mattresses/upholstery
Condition of anchor/chain
Condition of safety equipment
Condition of running rigging
Condition of seacocks and through hulls.
Condition of antifouling
Condition/Age of electrical equipment/instruments

I looked at a Bavaria Vision 46, A Bavaria Cruiser 45, An ELAN 45 and 434, a Sun Odyssey 449 and 419, A Dufour 430 GL .. never got to see an Oceanis 41 or a Moody 41 AC ... but the winner was a Bavaria 44 Vision from 2008. It ticked the most boxes above and is in excellent condition, it was the condition that caused me to give up the search and buy earlier than anticipated.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

A YouTube film that landed in my suggested viewing list got me thinking. It’s a well-known YouTuber who is into sailing and has a fair amount of experience by all accounts. He produced a video on what boat to buy which is more like what things to look out for when you buy a boat with a certain price range. what struck me about the video was his absolute assistance that he would never buy a boat with only one wheel. It got me thinking about how fixed some people are in their preferences as regards sailing. I can’t imagine being without a chart table and I know some others who hate spade rudders. Lots of other examples.

The video I saw also had the Youtuber saying he wouldn’t buy any boat over a few years old as it would be uninsurable.

I’m not going to promote his YouTube channel but I wondered what the red flags are for others when it comes to buying a new or second hand boat?

Twin helms was a must for me. Due to the size of the boat, a single wheel would have to be the size of a fairground ride to be usable when sitting outboard - which would have pushed me towards a racing design - and you don't find many crusing boats with tillers these days.

 

[dunedin]

True. Nor a draft of 3 metres to cruise the Bahamas.

But refusing to contemplate any boat with only one wheel? Bizarre IMHO.

Well once you have tried twin wheels are massively better for helming for fun, able to see sails etc And when stopped sailing give clear passage to stern for swimming, boarding etc. So not unreasonable.

But a different point of view - why do so many people seem to spend their lives watching YouTube videos

 

[capnsensible]

Like some others on here I've been lucky enough to sail dozens and dozens of different boats. Sure specialist racing boats need a bit of research but as for the rest well I've always got on with what I've got. My own yachts much the same with affordability the driver. Especially for us poorer sailors!

Not bothered about tiller, one wheel, two wheels. It's a boat. And seeing as the majority spend any time more than 10 minutes with the autopilot on does it matter?

 

[capnsensible]

Well once you have tried twin wheels are massively better for helming for fun, able to see sails etc And when stopped sailing give clear passage to stern for swimming, boarding etc. So not unreasonable.

But a different point of view - why do so many people seem to spend their lives watching YouTube videos

Where else can you see car crashes and plane crashes? Oh and dance training vids.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I think we are all prone to conformation bias to a degree, based on the strength of experiences.

As I have grown older, my biases have lessened and I am far more accepting of other, usually better ways, and more likely to change.

A recent YouTube sailing video, demanded, ordered even, that the only way, set in time and derived in blood to use a mooring cleat was one round turn, x and locking hitches each side. No context, just that way or no way.

Listen, watch, consider, then leave them to their paradigm anchor and move on.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

paradigm anchor

Thanks, I'm going to start using that phrase .... so many people are bound to their paradigm anchors, and not necessarily conciously. It's the reason why older people in general find it hard to use new technology as when a paradigm shift comes along, they can't use the knowledge they already have to extrapolate and understand the new tech.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Thanks, I'm going to start using that phrase .... so many people are bound to their paradigm anchors, and not necessarily conciously. It's the reason why older people in general find it hard to use new technology as when a paradigm shift comes along, they can't use the knowledge they already have to extrapolate and understand the new tech.

Watch out, Neeves will be along to tell us all to never use a Paradigm Anchor, but the far superior Bias Anchor - oh, and make sure you have an extra long snubber for snubbing those that disagree!

 

[benjenbav]

I’m not sure everyone has the capability to understand what they want; much less to articulate it - unlike Baggywrinkle whose list is an exemplar - a paradigm list, perhaps.

A YouTuber needs views. Most viewers of this content will have a casual interest in the subject and it’s much easier to hook them with a quick, mildly contentious assertion, such as ‘never buy a boat without two wheels’ rather than a 100 point list to learn with a test at the end.

‘Clickbait’ may be the term I’m looking for… perhaps.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Where else can you see car crashes and plane crashes? Oh and dance training vids.

Or the chess training lessons I try to learn from.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I’m not sure everyone has the capability to understand what they want; much less to articulate it - unlike Baggywrinkle whose list is an exemplar - a paradigm list, perhaps.

A YouTuber needs views. Most viewers of this content will have a casual interest in the subject and it’s much easier to hook them with a quick, mildly contentious assertion, such as ‘never buy a boat without two wheels’ rather than a 100 point list to learn with a test at the end.

‘Clickbait’ may be the term I’m looking for… perhaps.

His paradigm anchors were buried deep in the video. Definitely not click bait.
The title was the click bait - all about how to buy a boat.

 

[scottie]

I’m not sure everyone has the capability to understand what they want; much less to articulate it - unlike Baggywrinkle whose list is an exemplar - a paradigm list, perhaps.

A YouTuber needs views. Most viewers of this content will have a casual interest in the subject and it’s much easier to hook them with a quick, mildly contentious assertion, such as ‘never buy a boat without two wheels’ rather than a 100 point list to learn with a test at the end.

‘Clickbait’ may be the term I’m looking for… perhaps.

If you get a three wheel does that mean one wheel is off your wagon

 

[john_morris_uk]

If you get a three wheel does that mean one wheel is off your wagon

In the trades you’d still be rolling along.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I don't even want one wheel - a tiller is just fine!

Very rarely have I found wheel steering as sensitive as a tiller. Perhaps it's all the gubbins from rudder to wheel.