Boat design with regard to number of people on board.

[Daydream believer]

He’s probably got the same as us. I mentioned the 15knot factor earlier I think. I daresay similar size monos are the same, there comes a certain point where you instinctively hold the sheets in your hand, concentration goes up a level etc. And you mentally check you’ve got enough underwear. I’m confident I can leave a Pogo 30 or similar, though not ‘for dead‘ like many other monos. Their fastest point of sailing is also our fastest. Kite up reach, apparent wind 90 degrees. We’ll equal wind speed up to 20kn, when any sane person would think enough was enough. Upwind, such boats cannot compete. They’re also not much better below decks, and not much cheaper!

and just to put it out there, we rarely sail like that. We would never try it only 2 up, you need at least 1 more to deal with the beast, unleashed. But it’s not that much slower with a comfortable reef. 15kn is the comfort limit, you could say.

20 Kts with a kite up?
I would have thought that at that speed the apparent wind would have been too far forward to carry a kite with its deep draught
As for the Pogo 30, I read a review where a Hanse 311 was easily overtaking it upwind. Off the wind it was a different animal though. Reviewers & advertisers (& the French)seem to forget that boats do sometimes have to go back home after that down wind blast

 

[Chiara’s slave]

20 Kts with a kite up?
I would have thought that at that speed the apparent wind would have been too far forward to carry a kite with its deep draught
As for the Pogo 30, I read a review where a Hanse 311 was easily overtaking it upwind. Off the wind it was a different animal though. Reviewers & advertisers (& the French)seem to forget that boats do sometimes have to go back home after that down wind blast

You bear off with the apparent wind, you’re about 135-140 true in say, 15kn of wind at 90 apparent, with 15-16kn of boat speed. You get more speed and more angle, and more danger as the wind goes up.
Vast transomed monos are often a bit rubbish upwind. you need crew on the rail. And wetted surface is an issue in lighter winds. We point the same as a Hanse easily, and might make 8-9kn upwind. I know it’s hard sometimes for monohull sailors to appreciate the tri, or racy cat advantage, you don’t see them often enough. Most multis aren’t performance focussed either. Come up against the real deal, and you’ll realise what the fuss is about.

 

[flaming]

20 Kts with a kite up?
I would have thought that at that speed the apparent wind would have been too far forward to carry a kite with its deep draught
As for the Pogo 30, I read a review where a Hanse 311 was easily overtaking it upwind. Off the wind it was a different animal though. Reviewers & advertisers (& the French)seem to forget that boats do sometimes have to go back home after that down wind blast

POGO are a very particular product designed for offwind sailing with upwind performance very much an after thought. It's perfectly possible to design a pretty wide boat that will go downwind at 80-90% of a POGO and upwind considerably faster than a Hanse. Just ask JPK, or Sunfast, or J... Their 32/33 foot models are all capable of planing off the wind but are all a lot faster upwind than the equivalent POGO or Hanse. For example my upwind targets in medium breeze in a JPK1010 are 7.3kts at 41 degrees. We pop onto the plane sailing our downwind angles in about 18 knots of breeze. At which point we're doing 12-13. On a hotter angle with the A5 we have seen 15 knots. Sure a POGO will be faster, but we have a much more rounded performance.

No we're not as quick as a dragonfly, but we get away with a lot more and there are more of us around to play with.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

POGO are a very particular product designed for offwind sailing with upwind performance very much an after thought. It's perfectly possible to design a pretty wide boat that will go downwind at 80-90% of a POGO and upwind considerably faster than a Hanse. Just ask JPK, or Sunfast, or J... Their 32/33 foot models are all capable of planing off the wind but are all a lot faster upwind than the equivalent POGO or Hanse. For example my upwind targets in medium breeze in a JPK1010 are 7.3kts at 41 degrees. We pop onto the plane sailing our downwind angles in about 18 knots of breeze. At which point we're doing 12-13. On a hotter angle with the A5 we have seen 15 knots. Sure a POGO will be faster, but we have a much more rounded performance.

No we're not as quick as a dragonfly, but we get away with a lot more and there are more of us around to play with.

Racing wise, a mono is the only realistic way to get regular competition. Ours is really a (very high) performance cruiser. Itks fun. We start pulling the string in earnest when something sporty and 40ft comes into view. We race monos, we have not yet raced the DF. Though there is a fleet at Royal Victoria.

 

[Concerto]

Ah, like this? View attachment 151641

Yes. Not sure this harness is one you would want to be in for longer than a few minutes. Some quick release system for short tacking would also be advisable. On a safety note, where is his lifejacket?

 

[Daydream believer]

It's perfectly possible to design a pretty wide boat that will go downwind at 80-90% of a POGO and upwind considerably faster than a Hanse. Just ask JPK, or Sunfast, or J... Their 32/33 foot models are all capable of planing off the wind but are all a lot faster upwind than the equivalent POGO or Hanse.

I only mentioned the Hanse because I have one & it was mentioned in the review as a comparison. It is a cruising boat ( albeit fairly quick for its style) but any similar length race boat that could not beat it on all points of sail, would be a pretty poor race boat

 

[michael_w]

When i sailed on a mates tri we used to race coasters and other ships. Yachts were just too easy.

 

[mjcoon]

Yes. Not sure this harness is one you would want to be in for longer than a few minutes. Some quick release system for short tacking would also be advisable. On a safety note, where is his lifejacket?

I bet he has no idea where his LJ is! His Mum and Dad were aboard and might have known, but probably not. No call for short tacking, either. He was waving at tourists on a gulet we had just gone past...

 

[geem]

I was watching the start of the Caribbean 600 yesterday here in Antigua. Fantastic by the way. Just before the start the organisers were asking yachts to text in their POB ( persons onboard) as some yachts had opted for more crew as the forecast had changed to more wind. One of the volvo 70s confirmed 20 POB. That's plenty of mobile ballast
A boat I have raced on called Taz has 7 crew. 37ft carbon race boat. The crew sleep on the rail, harnessed on as they need the ballast there.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Jeez! That must be why, in my more mature years I cruise a multihull and race classics. And I’m now considered wise enough to be in the cockpit, or even the companionway or lower.

 

[geem]

Jeez! That must be why, in my more mature years I cruise a multihull and race classics. And I’m now considered wise enough to be in the cockpit, or even the companionway or lower.

I have a slot as crew on a Cariacou sloop for Antigua classics and St Barts a week later. Back to basics racing with no bells and whistles at all. It's great fun. No halyard winches so sweating up the sails. Basic winches with no self tailing. Everything is an effort. There is nothing down below but a bilge pump and a small engine.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I have a slot as crew on a Cariacou sloop for Antigua classics and St Barts a week later. Back to basics racing with no bells and whistles at all. It's great fun. No halyard winches so sweating up the sails. Basic winches with no self tailing. Everything is an effort. There is nothing down below but a bilge pump and a small engine.

My latest ride. Not my boat, I hasten to add!