Boat design consultancy - one year later

[MapisM]

Last year, after debating in this thread some ideas for building a hard top on the flybridge of my boat, I decided to postpone the project because my yard could not make it by the time I wanted the boat to hit the water.

Now, one year after (and with many further thoughts, changes and compromises in between), what started as a web debate is now a real thing.

So, aside from thanking again all those who contributed with many very useful ideas at that time, I thought that someone could be interested to see the final result.
As you can see, it was finally built as a s/steel frame with canvas top, hence not as a "real" hard top. There are various technical reasons for that, but the "double functionality" which was for me an important part of the design - i.e. the possibility to lower the structure and use it to fully cover the f/b when the boat is not used - has been maintained.

I must say that overall I'm very pleased with the result, not only from a functionality viewpoint, but also aesthetically - though of course I'll leave that to your evaluation!
It's surely much better than the original boxed s/steel arch, anyway. Particularly considering the overall style of the boat, which was miles apart from the previous arch.

Thanks again for all the ideas and suggestions received in the previous thread!

 

[AndieMac]

Nice neat job M, certainly looks the goods. How does the top lower to get into 'storage mode'.
I think she has cleaner lines with the big arch gone.

I wondered what your thoughts were currently regarding the top concept, it appears you've got a good compromise.
You've even moved that offending odd sized fender from the port side

Edit: I see now the top lays down towards the stern.

 

[rafiki_]

Nice clean job, well done. IMO does not clash with the fine lines of your boat.

 

[moonraker 36]

so would'nt you call that a bimi..?

look's good no matter what you call it..!!

 

[wakeup]

Nice piece of innovation using the top as a fold down cover for the winter.

Lines all look good and in proportion. Definitely a nice enhancement and does not detract from the original design.

It is very heavy to move up and down? Is the top all canvass over a frame or is there a grp component hidden inside?

 

[BartW]

Well done M, nice and professional job,

is the canvas bleu ? why not black or white/beige, the latter would have been my choice.

didn't you consider real canvas / window walls, with the roof completely rised ? fully enclosed FB top like the aussies have, (yes really uggly)
but it would be more easy to fit the covers, I believe,
and it would be possible to do a job/service or something underneath the FB cover. Your boat probably doesnt need any job's anymore

 

[benjenbav]

MM - Looks wonderful. I was worried that a more solid structure would overpower the original lines and end up looking like an enclosed flybridge, which I don't think would have been right for this particular graceful lady. Whereas what you have done is just, exactly right.

 

[Firefly625]

MM - Looks wonderful. I was worried that a more solid structure would overpower the original lines and end up looking like an enclosed flybridge, which I don't think would have been right for this particular graceful lady. Whereas what you have done is just, exactly right.

totally agree, it looks as though its always been there... that's when you know its right! btw, lovely boat

 

[ACE]

Nice job she look's a mighty fine vessel.........

 

[Sneds]

Certainly doesn't look like an add on - very nice!

Love the boat!

 

[MapisM]

Wow folks, thanks for the accolades, I appreciate!
I'm happy to see that you like the job, 'cause as I said I'm very happy with the result, but I'm also aware that we're all biased when judging our own creatures...
The comments from Benjenbav, Firefly625 and Sneds make me particularly happy, because I also thought that it looked as if it's always been there, the first time I've seen it in flesh. And I fully agree that this is a good indicator of a proper design - not just with boats, btw.

Now, to follow up on your questions:

How does the top lower to get into 'storage mode'

It is very heavy to move up and down? Is the top all canvass over a frame or is there a grp component hidden inside?

The original idea was to have two hydraulic cylinders instead of the forward raked tubes (those astern). But the reasonable overall weight of the whole structure made the manual movement a feasible alternative. Which is something I liked, on one hand because of the lower cost, but otoh also because I'm still a fan of the KIS principle, also in this era of hydraulic platforms, electric windows and other sophisticated gizmos.
So, the forward raked tubes are actually two on each side, with the lower one slightly smaller, sliding inside the upper one and locked in the raised position by a pin inserted in dowel holes.
I can take some pics of these details if anyone is interested, but in the meantime the pics below can give an idea of the geometry of movement, and of the s/steel structure alone.
Which also shows why no GRP components was necessary: aside from being fastened along the whole perimeter, the top canvas has pockets to secure it to each of the trasversal tubes - which is the reason why in the previous pics only the central longitudinal tube was visible.
Incidentally, we just had a whole day of a nice F7 mistral down here, and the canvas didn't even notice it, whilst all other boats with a bimini in my marina had to close it PDQ!

so would'nt you call that a bimi..?

Good question. Maybe it's not appropriate to call it a hard top anymore... Otoh, so far I never saw a structural bimini supporting also the radar arch - not to mention foldable down to be used as a full f/b cover!
Considering that nowadays the term is fashionable, maybe I should call it a hybrid hard top?

is the canvas bleu ? why not black or white/beige, the latter would have been my choice.
didn't you consider real canvas / window walls, with the roof completely rised ? fully enclosed FB top like the aussies have, (yes really uggly)

Yep, navy blue. It's the 4460 Sunbrella Supreme (with 5020 white for the side covers). For both myself and swmbo, navy blue & white have always been - and still are - THE boat colours. All the rest is fashion, bound to appear and disappear according to the industry needs to offer "newer" boats.
In fact, the boat was originally all painted in light beige (with red antifoul), as most of the boats from this yard, but when the time to repaint her came, we made it white with a navy blue boot stripe above a blue a/f.
But of course, this is pretty much an each to their own subject. If you're interested, Sunbrella gives also the option of different colours on the two sides of the same canvas (e.g. blue or black above, beige below).
Re. the full enclosure, yep, we could have done it. Actually, we still can - whenever in the future we would like to do so.
But as a matter of fact, for Med cruising, we don't think it makes a lot of sense.
Besides, it wouldn't be so appropriate for the "storage mode", as AM aptly called it, for various reasons: the windage would have been much higher, the transparent plastic wouldn't have protected equally well from the sun, and since the top when raised is more centered toward the bow, the aft part of the enclosure should have been huge - hence risking also to collect rain.
Not to mention, as you also say, that it would have been fugly for sure...!

 

[AndieMac]

I can take some pics of these details if anyone is interested,

Go on....you know you want to, and you know we want you to as well

Considering it's your boat thread, I can't recall any really specific info on the boats construction, besides being wooden and having a 3116 Cat. engine. Could I put my hand up for some of this as well, and maybe a pic or two, engine room, helm, hull framing etc.?

 

[longjohnsilver]

M, that's one impressive s/s structure, no wonder a F7 made no impression on it. How long does it take you to raise/lower it and is it a one man job? Any idea of the overall weight?

 

[BartW]

Considering it's your boat thread, I can't recall any really specific info on the boats construction, besides being wooden and having a 3116 Cat. engine. Could I put my hand up for some of this as well, and maybe a pic or two, engine room, helm, hull framing etc.?

+1

 

[MapisM]

M, that's one impressive s/s structure, no wonder a F7 made no impression on it. How long does it take you to raise/lower it and is it a one man job? Any idea of the overall weight?

That's a very good question LJS.
Unfortunately, I didn't think of weighing it while it was yet to be installed, and now it isn't trivial. Maybe I could do some math, considering that it's 3m wide and 4.5m long, the pillar tubes are 50mm and the upper ones are 30mm...
Then again, I don't care that much!
Very roughly, I would say that it is in the 200 to 300 kg region.
Anyway, raising and lowering it is not feasible singlehanded. Actually, one man can raise and lower it alone - even if it's borderline, and takes some effort - but another hand is necessary to remove/insert the dowel pins.
The best way to deal with it is to have 3 folks, 2 taking care of raising or lowering the structure, and the third dealing with the pins.
No big deal anyway, it really takes less than a minute. It's the fitting of all the lateral canvas which is more time consuming, obviously.

With regard to AM and Bart requests, you can find some details on the chapters "Technical Data" and "Construction Characteristic" of this (actually poor) English translation of an Italian magazine review. That boat is in fact an almost sistership of mine, with the main difference of a fisherman style cockpit and flybridge. Actually, each and every boat of this yard is 100% custom, so there are other differences, but not on the hull construction and main equipment.

On top of that, here are some pics of the specific details requested by AM:

Engine room:

Upper and lower helms:

Hull framing - this is not easy to show properly in a pic, but just to give an idea this is the hull structure under the bow cabin (the pump is for washing the anchor chains):

On top of that, since you seem interested to the technical part, I'll throw in a pic of the business end, for good measure...

 

[David of Essex]

Thanks for sharing your pride and joy with some really lovely photos. We would all like some more if possible. She looks a very leisurely cruiser, what is her cruising speed and range if you don’t mind me asking.
Back to your original post, there is always a compromise looks fine to me. Does it give you UV protection as well as shading?
David

 

[AndieMac]

Very impressive statistics M, that link you gave certainly indicated a special kind of boat.
To be honest, one of the first things that springs to mind looking at late model wooden boats, is paying for all those man-hours to build the hull and cabins, let alone the extensive interior joinery

An expression I heard once, describing Iroko planking was, 'as hard as a goats fore-head' , combined with the substantial framing, indicates good strong construction.

I see your preference for port and starboard throttle and gear levers to be seperate, as opposed to that of the linked 'brochure' boat, which is possibly more standard.
I prefer them as you do, so you are not darting backwards and forwards over the wheel, instead, just rolling off one lever onto the next.

Fuel capacity and horsepower for a D boat of the size is certainly on the upper end of the scale.

All in all M, imo, she is really something to be proud of, you keep her in fine condition .

 

[BartW]

good stuff MapisM !
the e/r and bilge look extremely clean,
is this standard maintenance, or do you pay extra attention to cleanness ?
also the stern gear looks impressively clean and neath, as all the rest of the boat.

is it all DIY or do you have crew / others taking care or that ?

 

[MapisM]

She looks a very leisurely cruiser, what is her cruising speed and range if you don’t mind me asking.
Back to your original post, there is always a compromise looks fine to me. Does it give you UV protection as well as shading?

The optimal cruising speed is between 8.5 and 9kts, where her engines spin at a relaxing 1650/1700 RPM (out of 2800 max), with 22/24 l/h fuel burn.
Since she holds 4.000 liters of fuel, this means a range of 1200/1300 NM, depending on how much reserve you prefer to consider.
Just to put things in perspective, that's almost 7 days of non-stop cruise...

Re.UV protection, TBH I don't know!
If the cost of the Sunbrella stuff is anything to go by, it should protect also from nuclear fallout...
Jokes aside, the shade is very "solid", for lack of a better word, so I don't think a lot of UV rays can pass throught it.

 

[MapisM]

I see your preference for port and starboard throttle and gear levers to be seperate, as opposed to that of the linked 'brochure' boat, which is possibly more standard.
I prefer them as you do, so you are not darting backwards and forwards over the wheel, instead, just rolling off one lever onto the next.

Actually, I bought the boat from her first owner, and he's the one who specced her.
But I agreed with most of his choices - as you would expect, since I bought her! - and this is one of them.
In my experience, once you get used to the coupling by engine rather than by function, you wouldn't want to deal with anything else!