brianrunyard
Well-Known Member
What a selfish pompous twit.
Boat builder wants to end red diesel!
- Thread starter rich
- Start date
styrene_stan
New Member
Been reading the threads and two things come to mind.
Firstly I'm amazed that so many people have got nothing else to do except spend all day typing messages to each other.
Secondly this Henry chap or shall I say "chump" probably does not represent the views of his work force who are no doubt doing all the hard work which he is doing his best to undermine.
Firstly I'm amazed that so many people have got nothing else to do except spend all day typing messages to each other.
Secondly this Henry chap or shall I say "chump" probably does not represent the views of his work force who are no doubt doing all the hard work which he is doing his best to undermine.
rich
Well-Known Member
Re: 25 knots at a third the fuel
[ QUOTE ]
suppose I should feel sorry for the poorer small boat man but small diesels chugging along at displacement speed in nice old boats don't use a lot of diesel so tax adjustment shouldn't be too much of a problem. Sorry if that is arrogant. Everything is a compromise, and they have had a good run.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hermees is one of the smaller boats that I have owned, but by far the most Beautiful, I was looking for a cat for my next one, so we can beach anywhere we like /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
[ QUOTE ]
suppose I should feel sorry for the poorer small boat man but small diesels chugging along at displacement speed in nice old boats don't use a lot of diesel so tax adjustment shouldn't be too much of a problem. Sorry if that is arrogant. Everything is a compromise, and they have had a good run.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hermees is one of the smaller boats that I have owned, but by far the most Beautiful, I was looking for a cat for my next one, so we can beach anywhere we like /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Col
Well-Known Member
I have been reading this with interest and I believe Henry has done himself no favours at all!
Firstly, given the huge range of boaters that use these forums from the humble "£500 trailerable cuddy cabins" to 70-80ft mega buck monsters, without fail all the replies to his posts have disagreed with his stance- If these forums represent the full spectrum of boat users, and he hasn't convinced us. where are his customers going to come from?
Surely first rule of business is to listen to your (potential??) customers
Secondly, He has made a big deal of the claim his cats use a third of the fuel of a mono, but then wants to triple the price of fuel. So where is the gain?
Thirdly, He makes a dangerous supposition that boat owners faced with increased fuel costs will beat a path to his door to buy a cat! The truth is if fuel cost was the major consideration, other choices could be - A smaller mono, or a sailing boat, or maybe keep same boat but use it less often. Others may move their boats abroad and some may get out of boating altogether. In any case I can't see huge sales increases for him.
Lets face it. Cars cost a fortune to run / tax / insure etc: If his ideals were carried over to cars, Everyone would trade there Mercs / Ferraris / Bentleys / Porches etc: and buy a cheap to run, cheap to tax and insure car such as a Reliant- tax it as a trike, drive on a m/bike license one less tyre to buy............!!!!
Oh yeah, wonder what happened to them??
Firstly, given the huge range of boaters that use these forums from the humble "£500 trailerable cuddy cabins" to 70-80ft mega buck monsters, without fail all the replies to his posts have disagreed with his stance- If these forums represent the full spectrum of boat users, and he hasn't convinced us. where are his customers going to come from?
Surely first rule of business is to listen to your (potential??) customers
Secondly, He has made a big deal of the claim his cats use a third of the fuel of a mono, but then wants to triple the price of fuel. So where is the gain?
Thirdly, He makes a dangerous supposition that boat owners faced with increased fuel costs will beat a path to his door to buy a cat! The truth is if fuel cost was the major consideration, other choices could be - A smaller mono, or a sailing boat, or maybe keep same boat but use it less often. Others may move their boats abroad and some may get out of boating altogether. In any case I can't see huge sales increases for him.
Lets face it. Cars cost a fortune to run / tax / insure etc: If his ideals were carried over to cars, Everyone would trade there Mercs / Ferraris / Bentleys / Porches etc: and buy a cheap to run, cheap to tax and insure car such as a Reliant- tax it as a trike, drive on a m/bike license one less tyre to buy............!!!!
Oh yeah, wonder what happened to them??
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re: Henry\'s Readers
TCm
I am of course sorry to have to agree that I have been wasting my time with little point!
In any event, as you say, there wil be other times. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
TCm
I am of course sorry to have to agree that I have been wasting my time with little point!
In any event, as you say, there wil be other times. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Nauti Fox
Well-Known Member
Re: 25 knots at a third the fuel
[ QUOTE ]
. I suppose I should feel sorry for the poorer small boat man . Sorry if that is arrogant. Everything is a compromise, and they have had a good run.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why thank you very much for your concern about us poorer types, and yes you are arrogant in the extreme.
If I became a wealthier boat man than I know which company I would avoid at all costs if you were still in the leisure market.
[ QUOTE ]
. I suppose I should feel sorry for the poorer small boat man . Sorry if that is arrogant. Everything is a compromise, and they have had a good run.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why thank you very much for your concern about us poorer types, and yes you are arrogant in the extreme.
If I became a wealthier boat man than I know which company I would avoid at all costs if you were still in the leisure market.
Dave_Snelson
Well-Known Member
Go back to your boat yard and build boats
Henry,
The red diesel debate will run and run...until the government forgets to re-apply. And then the debate will be closed. In the meantime (and if i were you) I would go back to building and selling your boats.
When you find a rich seam, you should mine in out rapidly and without much thought for anyone else, because if you don't, someone else in some other country will come and take your gold. And that's the way this world works. Good luck to your eco-cats and the best of luck to retaining red also. Oddly the two can co-exist.
I have no axe to grind here as my boat runs on LPG, which is unaffected either way.
The videoed debate could prove interesting and if I were backing red, I would prefer to let sleeping dogs lie. Why? Coz in the debate, you would only need a deputation from the green party and some cross-bench support for environmental issues and you could forever damage the cause of red diesel and give this government a million reason to "forget" the re-application. Foot and shot springs to mind. Not one I would have suggested if I were in the red camp!
This is a huge Pandora's Box - and one that the lid will never go back on. So go back to your yard and make and sell your boats - and good luck to you.
Regards
Dave
Henry,
The red diesel debate will run and run...until the government forgets to re-apply. And then the debate will be closed. In the meantime (and if i were you) I would go back to building and selling your boats.
When you find a rich seam, you should mine in out rapidly and without much thought for anyone else, because if you don't, someone else in some other country will come and take your gold. And that's the way this world works. Good luck to your eco-cats and the best of luck to retaining red also. Oddly the two can co-exist.
I have no axe to grind here as my boat runs on LPG, which is unaffected either way.
The videoed debate could prove interesting and if I were backing red, I would prefer to let sleeping dogs lie. Why? Coz in the debate, you would only need a deputation from the green party and some cross-bench support for environmental issues and you could forever damage the cause of red diesel and give this government a million reason to "forget" the re-application. Foot and shot springs to mind. Not one I would have suggested if I were in the red camp!
This is a huge Pandora's Box - and one that the lid will never go back on. So go back to your yard and make and sell your boats - and good luck to you.
Regards
Dave
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
I think tcm summed up the matter nicely - so no video and frankly not much more to say.
I think tcm summed up the matter nicely - so no video and frankly not much more to say.
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
>>>
“I suppose I should feel sorry for the poorer small boat man but small diesels chugging along at displacement speed in nice old boats don't use a lot of diesel so tax adjustment shouldn't be too much of a problem. Sorry if that is arrogant. Everything is a compromise, and they have had a good run.”
>>>
One of the most sweepingly arrogant "Bu99er you Jack, I'm inboard." statements it has ever been my misfortune to read on the internet. Are you sure you are not acting with a discreet prodding from some class war eco warrior? The chap above is probably spending a lot less on his boating per month than someone who visits a Premiership football match each weekend and is almost certainly putting less carbon into the atmosphere.
In passing, what is the production carbon footprint of an Ecocat and how does that compare with a similarly priced mono. That might be a far more valid point of debate for those who can afford new. The rest of us stuck in the circumstances of the quote above can presumably go screw ourselves.
>>>
“I suppose I should feel sorry for the poorer small boat man but small diesels chugging along at displacement speed in nice old boats don't use a lot of diesel so tax adjustment shouldn't be too much of a problem. Sorry if that is arrogant. Everything is a compromise, and they have had a good run.”
>>>
One of the most sweepingly arrogant "Bu99er you Jack, I'm inboard." statements it has ever been my misfortune to read on the internet. Are you sure you are not acting with a discreet prodding from some class war eco warrior? The chap above is probably spending a lot less on his boating per month than someone who visits a Premiership football match each weekend and is almost certainly putting less carbon into the atmosphere.
In passing, what is the production carbon footprint of an Ecocat and how does that compare with a similarly priced mono. That might be a far more valid point of debate for those who can afford new. The rest of us stuck in the circumstances of the quote above can presumably go screw ourselves.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
He is not really Eco and when pressed, instead of answering questions claims that we should leave the matter to eco experts. In practice of course you are right, the carbon footprint of his cat would probably be greater than that of the same displacment mono hull but in his world that does not matter. All that matters is his own, short sighted self interest. In fact of course he is acting against his own longer term interest but he cannot see that.
As TCM pointed out, on everything he pushed on from subsidised diesel to Adam Smith he is simply quoting what he has heard - there is no genuine grey matter thought behind his utterings.
He really has managed to do a brilliant PR job for his company across a range of boaters who it seems would now avoid his company at any costs. The viewings of this thread will probably soon top 2000 and he has managed, I am sure, to turn hundreds of boaters against his business. For that at least I am grateful because it will save people time even considering him as a future supplier.
He is not really Eco and when pressed, instead of answering questions claims that we should leave the matter to eco experts. In practice of course you are right, the carbon footprint of his cat would probably be greater than that of the same displacment mono hull but in his world that does not matter. All that matters is his own, short sighted self interest. In fact of course he is acting against his own longer term interest but he cannot see that.
As TCM pointed out, on everything he pushed on from subsidised diesel to Adam Smith he is simply quoting what he has heard - there is no genuine grey matter thought behind his utterings.
He really has managed to do a brilliant PR job for his company across a range of boaters who it seems would now avoid his company at any costs. The viewings of this thread will probably soon top 2000 and he has managed, I am sure, to turn hundreds of boaters against his business. For that at least I am grateful because it will save people time even considering him as a future supplier.
DAKA
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
Agreed.
Any true Eco Warrior wouldn't produce anything new wasting valuable resources.
Instead they would renovate old Freeman's from scrap in so doing avoid the unnecessary pollution from the chemical industry in producing fiberglass resin.
The heat required to produce a new O/B block and casting will far outweigh any perceived carbon emission reduction from a few gallons of diesel.
As for his solar power ideas, it is a known fact that the amount of energy required to manufacture a solar cell will never be produced from the solar cell in its lifetime.
They have their uses but please not as an energy saving device.
Agreed.
Any true Eco Warrior wouldn't produce anything new wasting valuable resources.
Instead they would renovate old Freeman's from scrap in so doing avoid the unnecessary pollution from the chemical industry in producing fiberglass resin.
The heat required to produce a new O/B block and casting will far outweigh any perceived carbon emission reduction from a few gallons of diesel.
As for his solar power ideas, it is a known fact that the amount of energy required to manufacture a solar cell will never be produced from the solar cell in its lifetime.
They have their uses but please not as an energy saving device.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
Be fair - he has some eco credentials like the amount of hot air he generates with very little input - also I understand that even that manure from bulls can be used to generate power - so that is another energy generation idea that you have to give him credit for. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Be fair - he has some eco credentials like the amount of hot air he generates with very little input - also I understand that even that manure from bulls can be used to generate power - so that is another energy generation idea that you have to give him credit for. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
duncan
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
now I think you are being decidely 'unfair'.
Taking eco in a wider sense than purely fuel emmissions or energy consumption (manufacture and usage) then many of the companies products would appear to be leading edge and effective for their intended use. The battery powered ferry being an example.
As already said there are specific applications that his products meet; and meet well.
Extending the principles to the leisure market is fine too; but he doesn't seem to have done this very well at all and in looking at it from the fuel perspective is missing the whole market.
Example - Windermere. He could present 'the perfect boat' for this environment with it's 10 knot limit; and a real coup for all parties could be possible by actually engaging the Parks Authority over a possible speed limit differential for ecocats together with a properly designed deck for that market. A similar product might do for the Thames and other rivers/lakes. Tellingly Victor's product looks very much the part.
Really scarily is the new models which all seem to be aimed at the existing commercial cat market (South etc having created the market but being unable to fulfil orders) but all these larger models are powered by............diesel inboards!
Even the much vaunted PLA order is based on diesel outboards.
oh well they say all publicity is good publicity..............
now I think you are being decidely 'unfair'.
Taking eco in a wider sense than purely fuel emmissions or energy consumption (manufacture and usage) then many of the companies products would appear to be leading edge and effective for their intended use. The battery powered ferry being an example.
As already said there are specific applications that his products meet; and meet well.
Extending the principles to the leisure market is fine too; but he doesn't seem to have done this very well at all and in looking at it from the fuel perspective is missing the whole market.
Example - Windermere. He could present 'the perfect boat' for this environment with it's 10 knot limit; and a real coup for all parties could be possible by actually engaging the Parks Authority over a possible speed limit differential for ecocats together with a properly designed deck for that market. A similar product might do for the Thames and other rivers/lakes. Tellingly Victor's product looks very much the part.
Really scarily is the new models which all seem to be aimed at the existing commercial cat market (South etc having created the market but being unable to fulfil orders) but all these larger models are powered by............diesel inboards!
Even the much vaunted PLA order is based on diesel outboards.
oh well they say all publicity is good publicity..............
henrymayhew
Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
Gents,
Thanks very much for debating. I don't think this has been a waste of time because both 'sides' have exposed their argument to criticism and learned from that.
It is a very interesting fact that you don't have to be that good at arguing the toss to effect change. I am sure I could have made 'my' argument better and answered questions more clearly, but apart from lack of experience in this area on my part, it is so stressful being abused that it is difficult to think straight and understand what the other party is really saying, and therefore answer their question.
What I am going to do is see if I can interest a decent environmental campaigning group with far more experience of making a case and far closer links to government than I have, to take this on. Not because I am afraid of my critics, who on reading this site I must admit is 100% of participants, but because they will do a better job. I have found in the past that once you initiate change you can usually find the resources out there to make it happen successfully, if your idea is right in the first place.
I know this will not be universally popular with motor boaters at first.
However, once diesel is taxed at the same rate whether used in an ATV or a boat, the pressure to develop new, more environmentally-friendly ways of enjoying the UK marine environment will grow. That can be a positive experience.
Of course, this argument still has some way to run and I will come in for a bit or a lot of abuse and threats. But there will come a time when we can make use of the fabulous computing and research capability the modern world offers, to devlop quieter, less vibrating, less jolting powerboats that are truly modern and creative. Is that not an enticing vision?
There will be a place for today's diesel monohulls for decades to come, but priced to reflect reality. Therefore, there could be a cost-benefit for users who wish to stay with that approach.
If some of the regulars on this site need to carry on telling me how arrogant and ignorant I am, please consider whether that point has not already been made by them a few times.
Why don't we take it as read that the diesel tax discussion will play itself out through open debate, and move on to how we want motorboating to develop.
It doesn't have to be expensive and exclusive. Everyone is invited to build our future. We have the power.
Gents,
Thanks very much for debating. I don't think this has been a waste of time because both 'sides' have exposed their argument to criticism and learned from that.
It is a very interesting fact that you don't have to be that good at arguing the toss to effect change. I am sure I could have made 'my' argument better and answered questions more clearly, but apart from lack of experience in this area on my part, it is so stressful being abused that it is difficult to think straight and understand what the other party is really saying, and therefore answer their question.
What I am going to do is see if I can interest a decent environmental campaigning group with far more experience of making a case and far closer links to government than I have, to take this on. Not because I am afraid of my critics, who on reading this site I must admit is 100% of participants, but because they will do a better job. I have found in the past that once you initiate change you can usually find the resources out there to make it happen successfully, if your idea is right in the first place.
I know this will not be universally popular with motor boaters at first.
However, once diesel is taxed at the same rate whether used in an ATV or a boat, the pressure to develop new, more environmentally-friendly ways of enjoying the UK marine environment will grow. That can be a positive experience.
Of course, this argument still has some way to run and I will come in for a bit or a lot of abuse and threats. But there will come a time when we can make use of the fabulous computing and research capability the modern world offers, to devlop quieter, less vibrating, less jolting powerboats that are truly modern and creative. Is that not an enticing vision?
There will be a place for today's diesel monohulls for decades to come, but priced to reflect reality. Therefore, there could be a cost-benefit for users who wish to stay with that approach.
If some of the regulars on this site need to carry on telling me how arrogant and ignorant I am, please consider whether that point has not already been made by them a few times.
Why don't we take it as read that the diesel tax discussion will play itself out through open debate, and move on to how we want motorboating to develop.
It doesn't have to be expensive and exclusive. Everyone is invited to build our future. We have the power.
BarryH
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
"What I am going to do is see if I can interest a decent environmental campaigning group".......I can see your first stumbling block here. Any "decent" enviromental group will look at your product and dismiss its straight away. If it were any other form of day to day transport that was used by the populus in great numbers they might be mildly interested.
You serving, what in reality, is a very small market. Based on that alone and the materials its made from its going to be a bit of a non starter. Though sadly, I fear, with the type of person, yes I'm being a bit steroetypical here, they'll see it a another half hearted challenge to take on board. I doubt they'll get far tho.
Hats off to you, your a brave man.
"What I am going to do is see if I can interest a decent environmental campaigning group".......I can see your first stumbling block here. Any "decent" enviromental group will look at your product and dismiss its straight away. If it were any other form of day to day transport that was used by the populus in great numbers they might be mildly interested.
You serving, what in reality, is a very small market. Based on that alone and the materials its made from its going to be a bit of a non starter. Though sadly, I fear, with the type of person, yes I'm being a bit steroetypical here, they'll see it a another half hearted challenge to take on board. I doubt they'll get far tho.
Hats off to you, your a brave man.
duncan
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
[ QUOTE ]
However, once diesel is taxed at the same rate whether used in an ATV or a boat, the pressure to develop new, more environmentally-friendly ways of enjoying the UK marine environment will grow.
[/ QUOTE ]
no it won't; it has little if nothing to do with it.
[ QUOTE ]
However, once diesel is taxed at the same rate whether used in an ATV or a boat, the pressure to develop new, more environmentally-friendly ways of enjoying the UK marine environment will grow.
[/ QUOTE ]
no it won't; it has little if nothing to do with it.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
Henry
I have had to reach the conclusion that you are basically nuts. Call that abuse if you like but I am simply calling a spade a spade.
You spend a huge amount of energy and words at avoiding answering the simple direct questions posed to you.
You cloak yourself in eco and campaign for others (not you) to be taxed higher then declare that the real reason for this is for you to sell more boats.
When challanged with the fact that your chosen campaign target the leisure boater is illogical if you are campaigning on either level playing field or eco grounds you state you want to leave such eco arguments to those who know more about whilst still mounting a psuedo eco campaign to tax a tiny part of the market!!!!!
You are not eco arguing - if you were there would at least be some logic to doing away with all red including commercial use. Your company is not eco at all. You are simply climbing on a band wagon for your own commercial gain without having given the subject any thought whatsoever.
Please do not think of yourself as some sort of far sighted campaigner for the future of the planet - you are certainly not that despite your arrogant attempts to cloak yourself with that.
And yes - you are a coward because you will not openly debate the issues. Nor answer my questions.
You claim that my questions demonstrating the totally illogical manner in which your campaign has chosen just the leisure market for higher taxes is not keeping to the subject - you think you do not have to justify your decisions on why you chose that market to campaign against whilst leaving your own market alone!!!!
The analysis of you by TCM is totally correct. I have no respect for you or your company not because you are trying to tax leisure boaters more but because you are either incredibily stupid, arrogant or selfish or probably all three.
At least you did admit in writing the reason why you are campaigning - it is for your own commercial interest and that totally destroys any credibility you have.
Henry
I have had to reach the conclusion that you are basically nuts. Call that abuse if you like but I am simply calling a spade a spade.
You spend a huge amount of energy and words at avoiding answering the simple direct questions posed to you.
You cloak yourself in eco and campaign for others (not you) to be taxed higher then declare that the real reason for this is for you to sell more boats.
When challanged with the fact that your chosen campaign target the leisure boater is illogical if you are campaigning on either level playing field or eco grounds you state you want to leave such eco arguments to those who know more about whilst still mounting a psuedo eco campaign to tax a tiny part of the market!!!!!
You are not eco arguing - if you were there would at least be some logic to doing away with all red including commercial use. Your company is not eco at all. You are simply climbing on a band wagon for your own commercial gain without having given the subject any thought whatsoever.
Please do not think of yourself as some sort of far sighted campaigner for the future of the planet - you are certainly not that despite your arrogant attempts to cloak yourself with that.
And yes - you are a coward because you will not openly debate the issues. Nor answer my questions.
You claim that my questions demonstrating the totally illogical manner in which your campaign has chosen just the leisure market for higher taxes is not keeping to the subject - you think you do not have to justify your decisions on why you chose that market to campaign against whilst leaving your own market alone!!!!
The analysis of you by TCM is totally correct. I have no respect for you or your company not because you are trying to tax leisure boaters more but because you are either incredibily stupid, arrogant or selfish or probably all three.
At least you did admit in writing the reason why you are campaigning - it is for your own commercial interest and that totally destroys any credibility you have.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
OK, this sounds like a hoot, so I'll join up immediately. Let me get it straight, you want to tax any sort of fuel to the hilt, so car drivers and boat owners are straight off the list. This group will be genuine non car owning, non boat owning tree huggers then?
They tend not to be very good at making cases, but never mind, you'll have fun
OK, this sounds like a hoot, so I'll join up immediately. Let me get it straight, you want to tax any sort of fuel to the hilt, so car drivers and boat owners are straight off the list. This group will be genuine non car owning, non boat owning tree huggers then?
They tend not to be very good at making cases, but never mind, you'll have fun
rickp
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
[ QUOTE ]
However, once diesel is taxed at the same rate whether used in an ATV or a boat, the pressure to develop new, more environmentally-friendly ways of enjoying the UK marine environment will grow. That can be a positive experience.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which (as has been pointed out to you, yet you continue to ignore it) is not the evidence of the effects of fully taxed diesel in France or Spain. Have you ever visited a marina in the Med? Been stunned by the number of cats out there? I wasn't 'cos there weren't any.
I sincerely hope you're not basing your business model on the assumption that once you've hiked up costs for boaters that they'll come flocking to your doors. People are not as stupid as you think - they will remember your stance on this issue. As will the almighty Google.
Surely you'd be better off getting your environmentalist friends to campaign for tax on aviation fuel rather than the piddly amount of red diesel used in this country? It would be a more laudible goal, but alas is less self-serving for you peronally.
Rick
[ QUOTE ]
However, once diesel is taxed at the same rate whether used in an ATV or a boat, the pressure to develop new, more environmentally-friendly ways of enjoying the UK marine environment will grow. That can be a positive experience.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which (as has been pointed out to you, yet you continue to ignore it) is not the evidence of the effects of fully taxed diesel in France or Spain. Have you ever visited a marina in the Med? Been stunned by the number of cats out there? I wasn't 'cos there weren't any.
I sincerely hope you're not basing your business model on the assumption that once you've hiked up costs for boaters that they'll come flocking to your doors. People are not as stupid as you think - they will remember your stance on this issue. As will the almighty Google.
Surely you'd be better off getting your environmentalist friends to campaign for tax on aviation fuel rather than the piddly amount of red diesel used in this country? It would be a more laudible goal, but alas is less self-serving for you peronally.
Rick
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Re: Go back to your boat yard and build boats
Just though I'd add my bit as well.
I had a quick look at Henry's site.
What ugly boats he produces - IMHO of course.
I have been sailing (sail powered) cats for nearly 20 years.
And I think these designs are ugly.
I would give up boating before I bought one.
So thats it - absolute fuel economy - I wouldnt buy ANY fuel cos I wouldnt buy one of his cats.
Just though I'd add my bit as well.
I had a quick look at Henry's site.
What ugly boats he produces - IMHO of course.
I have been sailing (sail powered) cats for nearly 20 years.
And I think these designs are ugly.
I would give up boating before I bought one.
So thats it - absolute fuel economy - I wouldnt buy ANY fuel cos I wouldnt buy one of his cats.
