Boarding Ladders

[gtmoore]

According to my surveyor, my transom mounted boarding ladder is too short to allow a MOB to climb back on board. I could change this for a longer one but after reading posts here it seems that the stern is not always the ideal place to get back on board. It would also probably mean drilling holes and such like which I would rather not.

I've seen these emergency ladders in a bag that the MOB can pull down but it seems to me that the steps would be too close to the hull to be able to get a foot hold properly (not to mention the normal difficulties of using a rope type of ladder). Other options are some very flimsy looking plastic types that hold the steps out a bit (but hold 230Kg apparently) and then there are the fixed s/s steps that hook over the toerail that seem ideal but rather inconvenient to stow.

Does the panel have any recommendations?

Thanks

<hr width=100% size=1>Gavin

 

[byron]

<font color=blue>I would love to see a picture to see why/how the Surveyor has reached his conclusion. Accepting for now he is correct and bearing in mind that someone in the water may not be able to climb back aboard unassisted anyway... why not buy one of those three step boarding ladders and just drop the hook part over the bottom step thus extending your ladder.

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.alexander-advertising.co.uk

 

[gtmoore]

Apparently it needs to extend 600mm below the water level. At the moment the lowest rung is only just under the water.

Good idea about extending with a short hook over ladder

<hr width=100% size=1>Gavin

 

[Gordonmc]

I would have thought a folding transom ladder would have done the business. I've seen them on boats, but not in chandlers, so they may be bespoke.

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[charles_reed]

Perhaps the term MOB is clouding the issue, painting pictures of seastate 8 and winds even more challenging.
The most frequent (about 80:1) is you or crew taking a ducking from the tender or off the pontoon whilst moored in calm waters.

Under those circumstances you'll not get back aboard unless unclothed and very fit.

I prefer to see two full rungs below water level, not the 1 rung/600mm your surveyor recommends, just try heaving yourself up with waterlogged foulweather gear, with your foot level with your stomach, and you'll see what I mean.

A rope ladder definitely requires a knack to climb it and is very, very difficult, over the side, if your boat has any tumblehome. Another annoying problem is the lower rungs floating away as you try to get your foot to the surface without swallowing too much water.

Finally, the rigid plastic type - great for climbing docksides at low tide.

If you want to be safe (ish), your ladder needs to be fixed in position - it's no good, when you need it, to find it's not deployed.
It needs to be easily folded down when you're in the water (I use a plastic hook which opens up sufficiently to hinge the lower part down).
It needs to be 100-150mm from the hull so you can get a foothold and needs to lead on to a natural handhold as you come out of the water.

You'll find many boarding ladders conforming to one of the 3 criteria, some to 2 but very few to all three.

Just imagine yourself, come back to collect the wife's cardigan, after a pleasant dinner ashore, falling in between dinghy and hull and then trying, in the dark, to get out of the briny. Then look at your boarding ladder and see how easy it would be to do.

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[Trevor_swfyc]

If the lower rung of the ladder only just sits below the surface then it is only any good for getting on from a tender. The ladder on my Mirage 27 has I think three rungs below the surface, this is made of stainless tube.
I would be very unhappy if I could not get back on board from the water via the boarding ladder as I often take a dip over the side (intentional and in the summer) but what if you were at anchor on your own and you fell in?
For this reason I would discount any plastic ladder or temporary extention. So I would either :

<pre>(1) Get the ladder you have extended if this is possible.</pre>

<pre>(2) Buy the same model of ladder but a longer option.</pre>

Clearly the place for a permanent ladder is on the transom!

Trevor


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[LadyInBed]

My stern ladder extends a fair way below the water line but to get onto it when in the water is only possible for me when in very light kit or swimming trunks. I have to pull myself up, then I can just get a knee onto the bottom rung.
If I am in heavy kit or in a drysuit it is impossible for me to bend enough to do this.

The solution is to tie a couple of meters of rope into a hoop and cow hitch it to the bottom rung. Then you can hook your foot into it and use it as a lower rung.

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[Gunfleet]

<<The most frequent (about 80:1) is you or crew taking a ducking from the tender or off the pontoon whilst moored in calm waters.>>
I've done this in the Blackwater in September, which is when the water is warmest. I couldn't get back up the ladder so had to swim from my mooring to the shore (towing my capsized dinghy tender). Took me about an hour to recover. God knows what would have happened if I'd been off the mooring and sailing. Next day I went and bought a longer ladder - two rungs under the water as Charles suggests. My present boat (a C&N 26) has a very sharply cut transom - no chance of a ladder mounting there. I've wondered about mounting folding mast steps underwater on the transom hung rudder - not for regular use, just for an emergency. But of course I might simply b****erup the rudder to no particular avail. Any thoughts anyone?

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[spark]

I saw an american double-ender (c. 30') in Montenegro that had a very hefty rudder on which were fixed at least three (there may have been more further below the water) bronze steps. I didn't speak to the skipper but I can remember thinking they looked like a good idea.



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.qei.co.uk/spark>http://www.qei.co.uk/spark</A>

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

I got a folding transom ladder from the Southampton boat show, stainless with wooden steps - much easier on bare feet, drops 1.5 rungs into the water from my cat, but I have high freeboard.

from 'Nautequipe Marine Supplies Ltd. Mechanical & Hydraulic Steering Systems, Engine Control Cables & General Chandlery Mail Order. Worcestershire, United Kingdom. Tel: +44+ 1299 400483 Email: nautequipe@msn.com'

Ladder made in Italy by Trem, give them a call, unfortunately no web site, I did a quick search.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ukstaffords.com>http://www.ukstaffords.com</A>

 

[chas]

I do quite a bit of single handed sailing and have always been concerned about returning on board if I fall off, especially if the autohelm is on. I have quite a high freeboad and the only transom hung folding ladder which would have two rungs under the water that I could find was at Westmarine (about £100). Delivered in two days. This combined with a length of knotted line streamed from the stern (above the ladder) works. I tried it. But it is essential to have enough ladder beneath the surface to allow you to step on to it while hauling yourself up. I think it should be rigid - if it was not, your foot would disappear under the boat and reduce the leverage possible from your arms. Does that make sense?

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[gtmoore]

Thanks for all advice/replies - Consensus appears to be to replace/extend the existing ladder so this is what I shall look at - hopefully I can find a replacement that can use the same fitting locations

Thanks again


<hr width=100% size=1>Gavin

 

[milltech]

There seems to be no obviously perfect solutions to the problem, certainly the transom ladder is the least preferable in ordinary swimming use, since a pitching boat at anchor stands a good chance of clonking you on the head rather than getting you aboard.

Boarding amidships is the best way, although it's not possible to have a permanent solution there. One option is a ladder I used to make called "LeStep", it covers one point made here in that stand-offs come out automatically as the ladder unfolds. It can also be extended as long as you need it to be, and although rarely seen ladders can be fixed together horizontally to make a scrambling ladder, easier to use that a squishy net, and it all folds up.

They can be fixed to the rail and held up with a bungee, not to hard to reach up and loose. One downside is that the stand-offs press against the hull as you step on them, so as the hull curves away so does the ladder, however its an imperfect world. Fixing ladders to make a scrambling frame also makes the whole thing much more stable and easier to use, but safety has always been hard to sell, and selling one ladder for life-saving is a miracle, selling three would be too much to hope for!

This ladder is now made by Morton Boats and distributed by XM, you can see a pic of it in use at

http://www.mortonboats.co.uk/html/mastep_products.html

That's my three pennies worth, (old money of course).


<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>

 

[charles_reed]

No reason why you can't mount your boarding ladder on your retroussé transom.

Providing you have a flat area, within 25 degree of vertical, of about 20" (500mm) squre you should be able to bolt on the fixed part, and allow the folding part to butt onto the fixed down-tubes.

The fixing tubes require a little careful fabrication to make them the right length for the ladder to be leaning into the boat by about 5 degrees.
You can carry one tube up to form a handrail as well.
Get it made in 22mm tube - the 18mm they tend to use is just too feeble.

Nice little boat you've got there!!

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[charles_reed]

Don\'t waste your pennies

If yours is a folding ladder take the movable portion, have the bottom cut off and then two new rungs butt-welded on.

If it isn't folding then make it so, by having lugs welded on the outboard face of the fixed ladder and a new folding portion made to fit.

Any half-decent welding shop should be able to do that - all they have to do is get the welding rod and tube.

Shouldn't cost you more than 4 bottles of Scotch - bugger the grasping Scots git.

PS If you're unable to get it done yourself e-mail via the baord - but make it quick because I intend to flee the UK, 2nd week in March, to sail.

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[charles_reed]

Indubitiably

But don't you train a polyprop line with a plastic bottle in the end to whip the autopilot off its pin when you grab it?

If you've got a boat anything like properly balanced, she'll come up to wind, get in stays, and probably fall off to leeward before the sails fill again - you've usually got about 6 - 10 minutes of relative still to get back on board.

The best thing is to make sure you don't go in. A 1200 mm tether on your harness, from cockpit, across cabin roof to prow, tape jackstays and 4 cockpit eyes (forrad/aft, port/starboard) makes sure you'll increase your chances of survival.


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[charles_reed]

Herreshoff

Put those on a lot of his designs at the end of the 19th century.

Trouble is it only works with transom-hung rudders and the final bit, back into the cockpit from the stock, is always pretty marginal (unless of course you're an accomlished tightrope walker).

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[c_roff]

My wife and I are setting sail for NZ in July, aboard our 35ft Super Soverign Ketch. We intend to have a rope ladder permanently mounted in a velcro pouch for emergencys, against the event that someone falls in with no-one else on board.
Relatively difficult to use I know but better than nothing.

For more regular use (deliberate swimming etc.) and in a MOB situation with someone else on board we want a solid ladder that extends 3 steps below the water and hangs on the gunwale by the shrouds. I'm considering cutting down an old domestic aluminium ladder, upgrading the rungs with wooden tops, and using it as a boarding ladder.

Can anyone advise how well this type of aluminum ladder will survive the marine environment? Are there any other problems with this solution that I might have overlooked? I don't think the ladder needs to fold as it can be stowed along the guardwires, lashed to the stancions, with negligable increase in windage.

I believe a stainless ladder of the length I require would cost in the region of £200!

<hr width=100% size=1>whistler

 

[tcm]

Re: Boarding Ladders - warning

wife got herself back on board a rental boat via the ladder, but held the side of the ladder at a spot where the gap between loaded ladder and boat would become narrower than a finger. So she watched frozen agony as the ladder with her weight on it dug into her fingers. Very very painful.



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[chas]

Re: Indubitiably

I have a wheelpilot with a clutch lever which is rather fragile and have yet to work out an emergency deactivation system. Anyway the boat is very well balanced and just as likely to go on without the autopilot in anything up to a force 5. I hasten to add that I have not had to use the system in anger yet (touch wood, crossed everything etc). I think the main point is that if my ladder was flexible it would be considerably more difficult to get back on board so I would recommend a rigid one every time.

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