Blueskying - silicone on a prop

Perhaps one day boat builders may often a "scuttle" option where access to the propeller
can be gained . A bit like canal boats . Able to clean the prop and untangle anything unpleasant.

My last two boats have an outboard well and they are simply 4 sided box glassed in. All have had an infill . Possibly boatyards could offer a conversion a bit like bow thrusters.
 
So - a problem of silicone and a simple polythene sleeve or a heat shrink cover (it would be nice if it was cheap) is that the design of the prop blades is the opposite (on one surface) to what you need - basically the cover will be sucked off.

So say its silicone, so flexible and fits like a glove - and we glue the offending surface? Same with polythene or a shrink fit cover.

Shrink fit covers for both electrical cables and rope can be sourced with glue on the interior - hardly an original idea.

I've applied and used Prop Speed and Prop Gold aka Prop One (I'm a certificate applicator - having gone through the Prop Gold training so that I could test the product) and they all work upto a point. If you follow the instructions they are easy - if time consuming to apply. Success is all in the preparation and following the instructions - exactly. They are not cheap.

My thought was to hav e a moulding made like a latex glove for the blades (I also thought of a simply polythene bag (would need to be hefty to be strong enough). But sticking with the latex glove example - say it was coated with an adhesive on application. If it works like Prop Speed then when it became fouled you would simply peel and or scrape it off - remove the adhesive with a stainless brush on an angle grinder and apply a new cover. I'd thought of simple cylinders/tubes of silicone, same material, for the hub and sail drive. (with appropriate cut outs).

I don't know if an adhesive would be man enough....Silicone adhesives?

As mentioned silicone only works if you use the vessel, but the same can be said (in my experience of Velox and any other AF). The possible advantage is that if the prop becomes fouled, despite the silicone, it would be much easier to clean and replace with a new cover.

I admit its easier with a cat to go off and find a beach on which to dry out, strip the props back to clean and re-apply. But I do note mention of scrubbing grids (or are they slowly or rapidly being closed) for keeled vessels. It is, or would be, easy to contain any product having an envorinmenatal impact - a big plastic sheet to catch 'anything'. Props and sail drive are hardly large - in the grand scheme of things.

Jonathan
 
@vyv_cox experimented successfully with copper plating a propeller. That is both inexpensive and durable, but doesn't seem to have been taken up. For most of us, I guess it's the effort involved in removing the propeller that stops us - it is for me. I'm also a bit nervous of coating a folding propeller; you'd certainly have to ensure the holes for the pivots weren't coated internally, and there are other fairly close clearances. But perhaps if someone in the electroplating industry set up a service to do this, it might be a viable business proposition?
 
Jonathan, you are completely over thinking this. You need a couple (presuming the cat has two engines) of old army kit bags which slip over the props when you stop for more than a couple of days. Oh and big yellow piece of sail cloth 1' x 3". Why? to put on the steering wheel so you don't forget to take the kit bags off before lifting the anchor. Replacing the kit bags every couple of years will be much cheaper than the cost of prop antifouling or quicker bits of sticky plastic in some sort Blue Peter experiment.
 
Pete7 said:
Jonathan, you are completely over thinking this. You need a couple (presuming the cat has two engines) of old army kit bags which slip over the props when you stop for more than a couple of days. Oh and big yellow piece of sail cloth 1' x 3". Why? to put on the steering wheel so you don't forget to take the kit bags off before lifting the anchor. Replacing the kit bags every couple of years will be much cheaper than the cost of prop antifouling or quicker bits of sticky plastic in some sort Blue Peter experiment.
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Excellent idea.

But recall NormanS' comment - I'm trying to be altruistic - our props are very near the surface - those with only one engine and a keel tend to have their props a bit deeper and might not fancy a swim. So my initial idea, over thinking as you suggest, was for 'everyone'. To extend your idea - add some bleach powder 'American bleach' to the bag prior to encasing the prop - and replenish if vessel use is not envisaged through the, say, winter.

AntarcticPilot said:
@vyv_cox experimented successfully with copper plating a propeller. That is both inexpensive and durable, but doesn't seem to have been taken up. For most of us, I guess it's the effort involved in removing the propeller that stops us - it is for me. I'm also a bit nervous of coating a folding propeller; you'd certainly have to ensure the holes for the pivots weren't coated internally, and there are other fairly close clearances. But perhaps if someone in the electroplating industry set up a service to do this, it might be a viable business proposition?
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I recall Vyv's testing of the electro copper plating of his prop. You mention my fears and doubts - how difficult would it be to block off the holes where the stainless pins fit, the holes for the stainless Alan bolts, M4 or M5 , that secure the pins. I also wondered about the hub that has, I believe, a polymer sleeve insert. This also still leaves the Saildrive leg. The other issue is - what do you do with your yacht when taking the pieces to be plated - in our case I was hoping to do this drying out and there would be a number of tides needed to complete the logistics - in fact a spare prop would be nice - but at the cost of props a complete non starter.

It is odd that the concept was not taken up as many of you hold your yachts on the hard through winter and copper coating a prop would be easy. Ours is a Volvo prop, 3 bladed folding. Its not difficult remove, just takes time (and remember which prop is for which engine (been there done that). It requires time and patience to re-assmeble and Loctite and tab washers - but its not difficult. In fact I would almost say - if you cannot do it - you should not be sailing.

Now if I could electro plate 'on site' some of these issues can be managed

I recall electro plating as an experiment early in secondary school years was a science experiment - and I assume ran from the 240v supply - it was an 'acid'? bath and copper anode (or cathode) and completed in a school 'period' of about 35 minutes - but it cannot be THAT easy. But blocking off the various holes would not be that difficult. I've anodised aluminium, using a battery charger as the power source. My guess is there are are whole host of YouTube vids - task for later today.

Jonathan
 
You want a very slippery substance to stick preferentially to your prop but be peelable on demand? That's a tougher demand than the spec for the adhesive for Post-Its and that took a really clever guy and the might of the 3M corporation over a decade to achieve. Copper plating is easier. As for the rest; there comes a point at which seeking to avoid going to a boatyard and hauling out like normal people do when they're doing maintenance below the waterline becomes obsessive make-work.
 
penfold said:
As for the rest; there comes a point at which seeking to avoid going to a boatyard and hauling out like normal people do when they're doing maintenance below the waterline becomes obsessive make-work.
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The idea of lateral thinking is that you find a, simple, but unseen alternative to convention.

We find that anodes and prop fouling dictate timing of the 'major' service - primarily AF. So haul out and expensive AF schedule is dictated by a small item - the prop and saildrive. The cost of servicing these items is negligible compared to the cost of AF.

it should not be rocket science (except it is) to decrease issues with prop fouling such that hull fouling and prop fouling, roughly, coincide. Its seems perverse that this is not addressed by users - obsessive, maybe - but ignoring it costs me and you money.

Marlin looked at it and came up with Velox, not a solution of the major AF companies. Prop Speed was developed outside the major AF companies - maybe they were obsessive and intentionally or unintentionally used lateral thinking (and brain storming).


There are a number of examples of use of an old technology to solve a problem, soft shackles come to mind.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
it should not be rocket science (except it is) to decrease issues with prop fouling such that hull fouling and prop fouling, roughly, coincide. Its seems perverse that this is not addressed by users - obsessive, maybe - but ignoring it costs me and you money.
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First of all, a vast amount of research into this is going on - I've seen many papers on it. It's an issue of great commercial importance, and even small improvements in the effectiveness of antifouling coatings can impact the profitability of shipping. We are only a very tiny proportion of a much larger and more significant market.

Second, it's a problem that puts rocket science in the shade! The solution has to be effective against organisms whose fundamental biology is everything across the whole range, including plants, bacteria and examples of pretty much every major phylum of animal. Even chordates (our remotest ancestors) get a look in - sea squirts are chordates. Then there's the opposing requirement that it only acts on the surface concerned; you don't want to kill everything in the ocean. It must not release chemicals that can accumulate in the environment.

Antifouling is a REALLY difficult research topic. I'm bound not to go into detail, but I can assure you that research at the frontiers of biological science is taking place right now. Whether and when it will bear fruit is anyone's guess, but I'd suggest you don't hold your breath!
 
It's good and reassuring to realize that living in a country with a cold and sometimes harsh winters, has unforseen advantages. We who lift our boats out of the water for the winter, can be spared from the apparently huge worry about growth on our propellers. Whew! ?
 
AntarcticPilot said:
First of all, a vast amount of research into this is going on - I've seen many papers on it. It's an issue of great commercial importance, and even small improvements in the effectiveness of antifouling coatings can impact the profitability of shipping. We are only a very tiny proportion of a much larger and more significant market.

Second, it's a problem that puts rocket science in the shade! The solution has to be effective against organisms whose fundamental biology is everything across the whole range, including plants, bacteria and examples of pretty much every major phylum of animal. Even chordates (our remotest ancestors) get a look in - sea squirts are chordates. Then there's the opposing requirement that it only acts on the surface concerned; you don't want to kill everything in the ocean. It must not release chemicals that can accumulate in the environment.

Antifouling is a REALLY difficult research topic. I'm bound not to go into detail, but I can assure you that research at the frontiers of biological science is taking place right now. Whether and when it will bear fruit is anyone's guess, but I'd suggest you don't hold your breath!
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I have made no mention of the use of a chemical deterrent, though copper plating looks interesting. My focus has been on a surface that is either easily removed and replaced (say a shrink fit cover) or on a surface to which organisms might not be able to easily attach - and again is easily removed and replaced, say like the Prop Speed coating.

If a silicone coating or a shrink coat could be cheaply applied - like Prop Speed but cheaper there would be no release of any contaminant to the seawater.

Prop Speed obviously has some positive characteristics - or there are a lot of fools spending money and having their props treated.

Many large commercial vessels, cruise ships, have used silicones (with mixed results). But the application have been complete hulls not simply the drive unit.

Currently silicones have been tried on hulls of commercial vessel but many large shipping companies are not convinced and have reverted to chemical AF, for example Maersk. Prop Speed have focus and simply look to treat the prop and ancillary equipment - with successful and growing sales.

Maybe the answer is simply copper electroplating.

Jonathan
 
Laysula said:
"Blueskying"?
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Broaden your minds

The Collins Dictionary

blue-sky thinkingin British English

NOUN
creative ideas that are not limited by current thinking or beliefs

The most well known advocate was Edward De Bono. Edward de Bono - Wikipedia

If you want something closer to home, your homes, then you need look no further than Manchester Business School - for example

Tudor Rickards: about creativity, leadership and president Trump

Think outside the box, don't be constrained by current dogma or technology and don't come to rapid conclusions as - they (conclusions) halt the development of ideas

Jonathan
 
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