Blue ensign

bradtarga34 said:
So, the only requirement to fly the blue is to be a British Citizen and member of a club with the appropriate warrant, no actual qualifications are required?
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Absolutely, if it means that much to you, you can buy the right to fly a blue ensign by joining one of a group of clubs (mainly ones that start with 'Royal') and obtaining a warrant from the club sec.

Whatever way you look at it you buy the warrant/permission to fly the blue ensign.

Tom
(who has joined innumerable clubs, including yacht clubs, over the years and then run out of enthusiasm)
 
l'escargot said:
If he isn't British he can't have a warrant. The fact that the boat is British registered isn't enough, the owner must be British too.
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So what you are saying, is that, excluding any via the backdoor possibilities, ie joining a Royal Yacht Club etc, the mere fact that he is not a British Citizen, automatically would exclude him.

In which case, is he ever likely to be found out? ie, if he were to go into UK waters, who would ever know? The only people who could, would be other members of the Yacht Club that issued the original warrant. Even if he went to the Channel Islands ( probably his nearest UK waters), nobody would know.

It is quite intriguing.

Stuart
 
stuartw said:
So what you are saying, is that, excluding any via the backdoor possibilities, ie joining a Royal Yacht Club etc, the mere fact that he is not a British Citizen, automatically would exclude him.

In which case, is he ever likely to be found out? ie, if he were to go into UK waters, who would ever know? The only people who could, would be other members of the Yacht Club that issued the original warrant. Even if he went to the Channel Islands ( probably his nearest UK waters), nobody would know.

It is quite intriguing.

Stuart
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I saw this boat too in Cherbourg a couple of months back. It is a cat IIRC.

Anyway, I think he is more likely going to get in trouble in his home waters than he is in the UK. If the French officials assume he is a Brit, and why wouldn't they? he is likely to get stopped for his papers, at which point it will come to light that he is a Frenchman flying a British ensign.
 
Recently I have noticed quite a few wearing blues but no burgee (I believe many of them are RNSA), I suspect if an appropriately impressive looking burgee is worn with your illegal blue you are less likely to be challenged - but why bother, the red looks smarter anyway.
 
Thanks for all your efforts in replying, I phoned my friend yesterday the persons concerned did not take his details other than his name, so quite how they will catch up with him i dont know, his boat doesnt display a name at present either.
 
stuartw said:
So what you are saying, is that, excluding any via the backdoor possibilities, ie joining a Royal Yacht Club etc, the mere fact that he is not a British Citizen, automatically would exclude him....Stuart
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Even if he joins a royal yacht club, he still wouldn't get a warrant - a warrant will only be issued to a British registered boat if it is owned soley by a British citizen(s).
 
neale said:
I saw this boat too in Cherbourg a couple of months back. It is a cat IIRC.

Anyway, I think he is more likely going to get in trouble in his home waters than he is in the UK. If the French officials assume he is a Brit, and why wouldn't they? he is likely to get stopped for his papers, at which point it will come to light that he is a Frenchman flying a British ensign.
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A French citizen can own a UK registred yacht/boat, in which case it is quite correct to wear (not "fly", tut) the Red Ensign.
 
neale said:
Only if he is 'established' in the UK
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'Fraid I disagree. Any EU established person (natural or corporate), and certain other non-UK persons (e.g. dependent territories citizens/corporations) has the right to register a vessel on the UK register. However, if not resident or 'established' in the UK (whether British citizen/corporation or not), the owner must appoint a "representative person" who must be UK resident (but not necessarily UK citizen) if natural or has a place of business in the UK if corporate.

The above was correct a couple of years ago - latest position can be checked on the MCA website.
 
Observer said:
'Fraid I disagree. Any EU established person (natural or corporate), and certain other non-UK persons (e.g. dependent territories citizens/corporations) has the right to register a vessel on the UK register. However, if not resident or 'established' in the UK (whether British citizen/corporation or not), the owner must appoint a "representative person" who must be UK resident (but not necessarily UK citizen) if natural or has a place of business in the UK if corporate.

The above was correct a couple of years ago - latest position can be checked on the MCA website.
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From the SSR site:

3) Who may register a small ship?
A small ship may be registered if it is owned by one or more of the following persons who are 'ordinarily resident' in the UK:-
British citizens

Persons who are nationals of a European Union or European Economic Area country other than the United Kingdom and are established * in the UK

British Dependant Territories citizens; British Overseas citizens; persons who under the British Nationality Act 1991 are British subjects; persons who under the Hong Kong (British Nationality) Order are British Nationals Overseas, and

Commonwealth citizens not falling within those paragraphs.

* Established It is not sufficient to live in the UK to be established in accordance with Articles 48 and 52 of the EU Treaty. To be established a person must make an economic contribution to the UK by being the proprietor of a business, being employed, or having very recently retired from such employment. i.e. within the last 6 months. If you have any doubts about your establishment you should consult the Registry.


Couldn't find the equivalent rules for part 1, but would imagine them to be the same.
 
Not sure if you're now agreeing or disagreeing with me. The eligibility conditions are here

For Parts I and IV, applications may be made by:

British Citizens
British Dependant Territories citizens
British Citizens living overseas
Citizens of an EU member state exercising their rights under articles 48 or 52 of the EU Treaty in the UK
Companies incorporated in one of the EEA countries
Companies incorporated in any British overseas possession which have their principal place of business in the UK or those possessions
European Economic Interest Groupings

When none of the qualified owners are resident in the UK, a representative person must be appointed who may be either:

An individual resident in the UK
A Company incorporated in one of the EEA countries with a place of business in the UK
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Part III (SSR) doesn't appear to permit a "representative person".
 
Observer said:
Not sure if you're now agreeing or disagreeing with me. The eligibility conditions are here



Part III (SSR) doesn't appear to permit a "representative person".
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I still don't agree that any EU citizen can register a boat on the SSR or Part 1.

Going back to our French friend, under what statement above is he allowed to register his boat on the British registry?
 
The representative bit is to cover those individuals who can register because of their British citizenship but are not resident in the UK or qualifying corporate bodies where the owners are not resident. It does not cover individual citizens who need to meet the specific "residency" related criteria which by definition means they are resident and therefore do not need a representative.

So the Frenchman can only register as an individual owner if he is UK resident. Even then he cannot obtain a permit for a Blue Ensign ("special ensign") even if he is a member of a club with a warrant. See Condition 4 of the permit (quoted in the extract from the Merchant Shipping Act in an earlier post).

"Nationality. The owner or owners must be British citizens."

So he is stuffed - demand the £1000 fine and donate to the Mission to Deep Sea Fishermen!
 
neale said:
I still don't agree that any EU citizen can register a boat on the SSR or Part 1.

Going back to our French friend, under what statement above is he allowed to register his boat on the British registry?
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To be fair, as he has only just bought the boat, it is unlikely the registration has changed. I know it took another Frenchman almost 6 months to change the registration plus all the import/ customs documentation when he bought a yacht in Scotland.

The registration must be another can of worms, as I am not sure what the domiciled state of the owner has to be.
 
neale said:
I still don't agree that any EU citizen can register a boat on the SSR or Part 1.

Going back to our French friend, under what statement above is he allowed to register his boat on the British registry?
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Statement 4 - the Declaration of Eligibility that rickp linked to (classes of eligible owners) makes it a bit clearer:

British citizens or non-United Kingdom nationals exercising their right
of freedom of movement of workers or right of establishment under
Article 48 or 52 of the EEC Treaty or Article 28 or 31 of the EEA Agreement
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