Appleyard
Well-Known Member
Do you reckon that the gulets will have to get blue cards as well? I suspect that they will find a way round the regs.
Blue Card
- Thread starter Capt-jacko
- Start date
Victoria Sponge
Well-Known Member
That would be so wrong, as they are possibly the worst offenders.
OldBawley
Well-Known Member
This bureaucracy is why we left turkey after 11 years of wintering in the Fethiye Göcek area.
We do have a black water tank but I refuse to justify the discharge of some spaghetti cooking water.
Furthermore one has to justify against a new made “official “ witch is no good. Give a Turk a hat and he becomes God, the only way left to communicate with him is bakshisch.
The forced command to pump out the quantity They calculate at a rate They want and for a price They make, is just to much for me as a Cruiser. Nobody tells me what to do, that is why I am the captain of my little ship.
Saw it coming and together with the rule for max stay of 11 days in the bays, They now have a tool to fine for living. Last year only three yachts winter-cruised the beautiful Fethiye Göcek Bays.
Fifty uniforms, three coastguard vessels and one helicopter had nobody else to play with than us.
They left us in peace but came looking every day. Mad dogs and uniformed macho´s, that is not my game. We just have to look at each other and the battle begins. Do not forget that even the flag police come check the courtesy flag with three machine-gun armed hats and one very alfaman officer.
In 2009, They came checking my papers three times in one week. Polite, but bossy. Every time different crew. The forth time I took the painter of there dingy, pulled it through a hole in foot rail and tied it to the mainscheet in the middle of cockpit. Then I started acting absolutely bezurk. Did not stop talking for fifteen minutes in my for everybody incomprehensible Flemish dialect. Left them no second for asking something, showed them my papers four times, and a photo album then times. They ware rely afraid of me, as is everybody. A lunatic is dangerous. They ware asking to untie there painter, but I had fun now and played complete utterly mentally overturned. Imitating Rowan Atkinson. One of them wanted to board the yacht to untie himself and I gave my loony performance some extra power. I kept them fifteen minutes tied to my boat. Those young boys had absolute no idea what to do with this totally crazy old man. Two ware giggling, then there boss became angry so I let them go. No more “ Papers, transitlog ” for the rest of winter.
The Turkish Riviera has changed. Liveaboard cruisers no longer welcome. The Turks are discovering there beautiful coast and yachting is very trendy. Money is no problem, the Turkish new rich is extremely arrogant. The coastal population sees all this money and wants it share. Ten years ago they had a donkey, the rich a two stroke motorcycle. Now they drive a BMW SUV. and have a 54 feet yacht. No experience exept for giving gas.
I do not think the new rules are going to be rigorously implemented. Unless someone dos not like you. One call and you have the uniforms on your back. And now they have a tool to fine you.
No way, Bawley has left the building.
We do have a black water tank but I refuse to justify the discharge of some spaghetti cooking water.
Furthermore one has to justify against a new made “official “ witch is no good. Give a Turk a hat and he becomes God, the only way left to communicate with him is bakshisch.
The forced command to pump out the quantity They calculate at a rate They want and for a price They make, is just to much for me as a Cruiser. Nobody tells me what to do, that is why I am the captain of my little ship.
Saw it coming and together with the rule for max stay of 11 days in the bays, They now have a tool to fine for living. Last year only three yachts winter-cruised the beautiful Fethiye Göcek Bays.
Fifty uniforms, three coastguard vessels and one helicopter had nobody else to play with than us.
They left us in peace but came looking every day. Mad dogs and uniformed macho´s, that is not my game. We just have to look at each other and the battle begins. Do not forget that even the flag police come check the courtesy flag with three machine-gun armed hats and one very alfaman officer.
In 2009, They came checking my papers three times in one week. Polite, but bossy. Every time different crew. The forth time I took the painter of there dingy, pulled it through a hole in foot rail and tied it to the mainscheet in the middle of cockpit. Then I started acting absolutely bezurk. Did not stop talking for fifteen minutes in my for everybody incomprehensible Flemish dialect. Left them no second for asking something, showed them my papers four times, and a photo album then times. They ware rely afraid of me, as is everybody. A lunatic is dangerous. They ware asking to untie there painter, but I had fun now and played complete utterly mentally overturned. Imitating Rowan Atkinson. One of them wanted to board the yacht to untie himself and I gave my loony performance some extra power. I kept them fifteen minutes tied to my boat. Those young boys had absolute no idea what to do with this totally crazy old man. Two ware giggling, then there boss became angry so I let them go. No more “ Papers, transitlog ” for the rest of winter.
The Turkish Riviera has changed. Liveaboard cruisers no longer welcome. The Turks are discovering there beautiful coast and yachting is very trendy. Money is no problem, the Turkish new rich is extremely arrogant. The coastal population sees all this money and wants it share. Ten years ago they had a donkey, the rich a two stroke motorcycle. Now they drive a BMW SUV. and have a 54 feet yacht. No experience exept for giving gas.
I do not think the new rules are going to be rigorously implemented. Unless someone dos not like you. One call and you have the uniforms on your back. And now they have a tool to fine you.
No way, Bawley has left the building.
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truscott
Well-Known Member
Can anyone confirm that this "Blue Card" requirement is still just for Mugla Province, or has it been expanded to include all of Turkey? Is Didim covered, or Finike?
Also, how will you fare if you are based in Kos for example and are sailing to Symi & Rhodes. Are you likely to get boarded and held to account for not having a "Blue Card"? I suspect not, and also suspect that Greece is about to get a large influx of Charter Operators!
I'm just wondering whether it is time to venture elsewhere, which is a pity as we really like Turkey, but the cost and hassle of fitting Grey Water tanks leaves us only being able to feed into the Black Water ones, and at the suppossed 50 Ltr's per day per person, we're going to have to moor permanently to the pump out station
If you think about this, our boat sleeps 6 comfortably, which is a 300 Ltr volume per day by the figures we've been told they are using. Leaving Marmaris, the next pump out station is Bozburun or Orhaniye. This year we took 10 days to get to Bozburun. 3000 Ltrs of grey water apparently, and yet we only took on 200 Ltrs of water along the way! If my school lessons are still recalled correctly, that 3000 Ltrs, is 3 Cubic Meters of space. Almost the volume of one of the aft cabins. I can't see me adding any Grey Water Tanks to that capacity!
I really hope the Charter Operators can get some sense put into this, as they're the only ones with the financial clout that may be able to bring some sanity into the picture.
Crossing my fingers and toes.
PT.
PT.
Also, how will you fare if you are based in Kos for example and are sailing to Symi & Rhodes. Are you likely to get boarded and held to account for not having a "Blue Card"? I suspect not, and also suspect that Greece is about to get a large influx of Charter Operators!
I'm just wondering whether it is time to venture elsewhere, which is a pity as we really like Turkey, but the cost and hassle of fitting Grey Water tanks leaves us only being able to feed into the Black Water ones, and at the suppossed 50 Ltr's per day per person, we're going to have to moor permanently to the pump out station
If you think about this, our boat sleeps 6 comfortably, which is a 300 Ltr volume per day by the figures we've been told they are using. Leaving Marmaris, the next pump out station is Bozburun or Orhaniye. This year we took 10 days to get to Bozburun. 3000 Ltrs of grey water apparently, and yet we only took on 200 Ltrs of water along the way! If my school lessons are still recalled correctly, that 3000 Ltrs, is 3 Cubic Meters of space. Almost the volume of one of the aft cabins. I can't see me adding any Grey Water Tanks to that capacity!
I really hope the Charter Operators can get some sense put into this, as they're the only ones with the financial clout that may be able to bring some sanity into the picture.
Crossing my fingers and toes.
PT.
PT.
satsuma
Well-Known Member
On the south coast there is no such thing, and no one even knows what a blue card is! The Aegean coast is different in any event by virtue of the much larger "fleet" in attendance and cash flow opportunities!
The marina where I keep my boat, has issued no such instruction or information. In fact my enquiry was just confusing for them! But then again, they are considerably more relaxed over this kind of thing, and far less anal than in Marmaris!
The marina where I keep my boat, has issued no such instruction or information. In fact my enquiry was just confusing for them! But then again, they are considerably more relaxed over this kind of thing, and far less anal than in Marmaris!
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
It will get to you, at present it is just from north of Bodrum to the Fethiye area, Mugla Province. As soon as its seen as a success with revenue raised, and a lot of boats moved to other areas it will be extended.
The literature lists just 30 pump out points in an area from Yalikavak to Fethiye that must have several thousand boats in it. I think that some charter bases have their own pump out facilities, but even so there is a physical impossibility of making the system work for all boats, after all how long is anybody prepared to queue up to be pumped out?
The literature lists just 30 pump out points in an area from Yalikavak to Fethiye that must have several thousand boats in it. I think that some charter bases have their own pump out facilities, but even so there is a physical impossibility of making the system work for all boats, after all how long is anybody prepared to queue up to be pumped out?
satsuma
Well-Known Member
To be perfectly honest I don't think this is as much of an issue, as is being suggested! After all, this is Turkey and rules and regulations are determinedly argued for by the administrators, and then mostly ignored by the enforcement agencies!
Confusing I know but rules here are meant to be flexible at least, and guidance at best, but enforced rigidly, never!
I have asked all my Turkish friends, one even runs a charter fleet from Bodrum, and so far nothing!
I wonder if they are just "selling" this through the foriegners that keep boats here, because it is only Mugla province and seemingly from the posts only Marmaris. In any event all the boats transiting through Mugla will not comply, and once left the region, no one else will know about it!
Confusing I know but rules here are meant to be flexible at least, and guidance at best, but enforced rigidly, never!
I have asked all my Turkish friends, one even runs a charter fleet from Bodrum, and so far nothing!
I wonder if they are just "selling" this through the foriegners that keep boats here, because it is only Mugla province and seemingly from the posts only Marmaris. In any event all the boats transiting through Mugla will not comply, and once left the region, no one else will know about it!
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Capt-jacko
New Member
I don't think it relay matters if it works or not,the point is a hidden agenda to get rid of visters and there boats from the bays because the new rich Turks wont it for them self, visiting Yachts that are in the bays are going to be easy pickings for the CG and his Hi Def camera mounted on his helicopter.my fear is a lot of people are going to have big fines and there boat taken un till its payed and i see a lot of distressed people as a result, we have been in this area for a few years now but as soon as the winter is over we are off away from this area and maybe country too , this year we found very rude some of the Turkish boat owners and arrogant also.
satsuma
Well-Known Member
As a conspiracy theory I think it is a little lame! On the basis that approximately 70%-80% of Turkish owned boats in Turkey are actually foreign flagged (possibly more)! Especially the rich ones, most are registered in Delaware, and others in Germany!
Again, from what has been said, the drive for this seems only to be coming out of Marmaris! and possibly led by Yat Marin? Perhaps the new management see a bigger earnings potential through pumping out and blue card issue? My advice would be to avoid Marmaris! I do!
I am surprised that you found Turkish nationals to be rude however, that is not the normal reputation of a Turk. It is the only country I am aware of that has hospitality to visitors, enshrined in law!
Appleyard
Well-Known Member
"I am surprised that you found Turkish nationals to be rude however, that is not the normal reputation of a Turk. It is the only country I am aware of that has hospitality to visitors, enshrined in law"
I would agree with you there...We have sometimes encountered rudeness from people in Turkish flagged boats,and it always turns out that they are from other countries..usually north of the med.
I would agree with you there...We have sometimes encountered rudeness from people in Turkish flagged boats,and it always turns out that they are from other countries..usually north of the med.
Squeaky
Well-Known Member
Good evening:
Has anyone considered that Yat Marina might well have been GIVEN a handful of cards and decided to increase their bottom line by flogging them off to foreigners at 20 euros a card? Or even that someone employed by Yat Marina has decided to increase his own bank balance?
I have had no involvement with the Blue Card but I clearly recall someone saying or posting that they had been issued with a blue card in Netsel at no cost. I can assure you that Netsel would not be subsidizing the cost in order to provide them free of charge.
Personally I think this whole project will die a natural death as I suspect even those who proposed it in the first place have discovered it is unworkable. I don't however expect them to come right out and admit it.
I am not surprised that there are foreigners in Turkey who try, usually unsuccessfully, to comply with every real or rumored regulation and suspect that Yat Marina are aware of this and taking advantage of them.
The question is "however can Netsel provide cards for nothing while Yat Marina are charging 20 euros each????" Oh, yes, didn't I read someplace that the 20 euros was an "administrative charge". Well, this administrative charge for 10 cards would collect enough to pay one of their worker's monthly wage so it is not an insignificant amount locally.
In the meantime I will relax and watch.
Cheers
Squeaky
P.S. Most of the pump out stations do not exist in reality.
Has anyone considered that Yat Marina might well have been GIVEN a handful of cards and decided to increase their bottom line by flogging them off to foreigners at 20 euros a card? Or even that someone employed by Yat Marina has decided to increase his own bank balance?
I have had no involvement with the Blue Card but I clearly recall someone saying or posting that they had been issued with a blue card in Netsel at no cost. I can assure you that Netsel would not be subsidizing the cost in order to provide them free of charge.
Personally I think this whole project will die a natural death as I suspect even those who proposed it in the first place have discovered it is unworkable. I don't however expect them to come right out and admit it.
I am not surprised that there are foreigners in Turkey who try, usually unsuccessfully, to comply with every real or rumored regulation and suspect that Yat Marina are aware of this and taking advantage of them.
The question is "however can Netsel provide cards for nothing while Yat Marina are charging 20 euros each????" Oh, yes, didn't I read someplace that the 20 euros was an "administrative charge". Well, this administrative charge for 10 cards would collect enough to pay one of their worker's monthly wage so it is not an insignificant amount locally.
In the meantime I will relax and watch.
Cheers
Squeaky
P.S. Most of the pump out stations do not exist in reality.
andrewgould97
New Member
Our black water tank is about 50 litres. No room for any grey water tank at all as the boat is quite small (11m). Won't be going to Turkey, whether they enforce this legislation or not- even the threat of a massive fine isnt worth the worry. They have effectively banned small yachts. Greece looks much more welcoming!
Capt-jacko
New Member
Yes we are in the same boat, no room for tanks and my wife is petrified to pull the plug out on our sink in fear we get a fine.
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Norman_E
Well-Known Member
Yacht Marine actually charged me 20 Lire, not Euros, for the card but are stating that absolutely nothing may be pumped into the sea from now on. I have cruised here for six years and intend to continue because my wife does not want to sail anywhere else. Next year however I intend to check straight out and go to Greek Islands for our May/June cruise, and find out on my return how the scheme is being operated. If it is too heavy handed that will be the end of Turkey for us.
jimbaerselman
Well-Known Member
Certainly since 1984 it has always been the case in Turkey that any form of waste water discharge into the sea has been against the law. Operating charter boats there we had to instruct people not to shower on deck using any detergents, and only ever to discharge sink or shower water very discreetly, and preferably at night. Even so, we picked up fines - usually from complaints being lodged against us by Gulets.
So there's nothing new about the law. What's changing is the attempt at policing it.
So there's nothing new about the law. What's changing is the attempt at policing it.
Capt-jacko
New Member
Yes thats how it looks,just hope we don't get fine.
The weather has been very nice over the past few days and we would love to go out of the marina ,have a day or two in the bay but my wife says no we not running the risk of a fine ,so thats it we stuck here in the marina.
The weather has been very nice over the past few days and we would love to go out of the marina ,have a day or two in the bay but my wife says no we not running the risk of a fine ,so thats it we stuck here in the marina.
Squeaky
Well-Known Member
Good evening:
Capt-jackolYes thats how it looks,just hope we don't get fine.
The weather has been very nice over the past few days and we would love to go out of the marina ,have a day or two in the bay but my wife says no we not running the risk of a fine ,so thats it we stuck here in the marina.
I don't know if the above is meant as a joke, sarcasm or what but if you are actually staying in the marina because of all the garbage you have heard I feel sorry for you and your wife. You are obviously going to have a hard time if you listen to ever story you hear and accept it as gospel. Have you heard that it is illegal to cross the street except at a designated pedestrian crossing??? Well, if you have and try to comply you will spend a lot of time on the wrong side of the street in Turkey.
I suggest you take some time, wonder around the marina and ask everyone you meet how many times they have been stopped by the coast guard and what happened if and when they were stopped/visited. I suspect you will ask a lot of people before you find anyone who has been stopped or visited. I have never been stopped in over 30 years in the eastern Med and I am darned sure that this silly Blue Card scheme is not going to change that.
A well known author was in Marmaris last week and visited a marina manager who told him that there is no law which permits anyone to inspect foreign flags yachts nor any country that he knew of which requires grey water tanks. I didn't make notes at the time but that was the gist of the conversation. Get in touch via a PM and I will arrange a meeting with the manager if you want to hear a more realistic version of this whole Blue Card affair.
Someone at Marmaris Yat Marina has obviously spooked you with their tales of doom and gloom which I suggest was simply designed to get you to cough up 20 euros for their Blue Card - that is the same card I got from Netsel Marina at no cost yesterday. Or it is possible someone is pulling your leg as part of a windup.
Just stop and think about it for a minute and consider how many yachts in this area have grey water tanks - how many charter boats are there and how many have these tanks? You might conduct a survey when wandering around asking about the coast guard visits.
Cheers
Squeaky
Capt-jackolYes thats how it looks,just hope we don't get fine.
The weather has been very nice over the past few days and we would love to go out of the marina ,have a day or two in the bay but my wife says no we not running the risk of a fine ,so thats it we stuck here in the marina.
I don't know if the above is meant as a joke, sarcasm or what but if you are actually staying in the marina because of all the garbage you have heard I feel sorry for you and your wife. You are obviously going to have a hard time if you listen to ever story you hear and accept it as gospel. Have you heard that it is illegal to cross the street except at a designated pedestrian crossing??? Well, if you have and try to comply you will spend a lot of time on the wrong side of the street in Turkey.
I suggest you take some time, wonder around the marina and ask everyone you meet how many times they have been stopped by the coast guard and what happened if and when they were stopped/visited. I suspect you will ask a lot of people before you find anyone who has been stopped or visited. I have never been stopped in over 30 years in the eastern Med and I am darned sure that this silly Blue Card scheme is not going to change that.
A well known author was in Marmaris last week and visited a marina manager who told him that there is no law which permits anyone to inspect foreign flags yachts nor any country that he knew of which requires grey water tanks. I didn't make notes at the time but that was the gist of the conversation. Get in touch via a PM and I will arrange a meeting with the manager if you want to hear a more realistic version of this whole Blue Card affair.
Someone at Marmaris Yat Marina has obviously spooked you with their tales of doom and gloom which I suggest was simply designed to get you to cough up 20 euros for their Blue Card - that is the same card I got from Netsel Marina at no cost yesterday. Or it is possible someone is pulling your leg as part of a windup.
Just stop and think about it for a minute and consider how many yachts in this area have grey water tanks - how many charter boats are there and how many have these tanks? You might conduct a survey when wandering around asking about the coast guard visits.
Cheers
Squeaky
mocruising
Well-Known Member
We are off to Turkey next year. We have two 80 L black water holding tanks. All three sinks discharge below the water line but the showers and washing machine pump out above the water line. We have installed some additional pipework, T pieces and valves so that all will now discharge below the waterline, just in case there are preying eyes in the viscinity.
vas
Well-Known Member
correct me if I'm wrong, but I was told a similar story for Greece as well.
Apparently there is a law (now for 6-7yrs) that obliges you to go to the pumping station and empty before you're given permission to leave port.
Problem is there's no pumping station established/functional in any port in Greece (or dunno maybe 2-3 stations in the whole of Greece...)
So, take all these lightly, they'll eventually end up as nice jokes over a drink...
They shouldn't (to an extend) but imho that's how they'll end up.
Re: arrogant and inpolite Turks, I'd be very impressed if they existed in similar or higher percentages than in any other country (on the contrary!)
V
Apparently there is a law (now for 6-7yrs) that obliges you to go to the pumping station and empty before you're given permission to leave port.
Problem is there's no pumping station established/functional in any port in Greece (or dunno maybe 2-3 stations in the whole of Greece...)
So, take all these lightly, they'll eventually end up as nice jokes over a drink...
They shouldn't (to an extend) but imho that's how they'll end up.
Re: arrogant and inpolite Turks, I'd be very impressed if they existed in similar or higher percentages than in any other country (on the contrary!)
V
satsuma
Well-Known Member
Absolutely and 100% agree with this.
It is also illegal to ride a scooter or motorbike in Turkey without a crash helmet! - See how that works, it is just too hot to wear one in the summer anyway, and who carrys five helmets on a scooter for the rider and 4 passengers anyway?
It is against the law to drive through a red traffic light! - and yet I see many people (done it myself) and the police regularly do it because there is nothing else coming! It is more sensible than waiting at a red light for no traffic!
Your Transit log must be up to date with "current" crew list! - This is rigidly enforced (PMSL) if you believe the agents who profit from these changes? My T log has never been checked (or changed or updated for that matter), although some of my friends in the Sea Police suggest that it "should" be kept up to date but they will never check anyway!
As mentioned before, laws, rules and regulations in Turkey are seen more as guidance than anything absolute!
There is a significant allowance made for common sense to prevail!If you dump your previously full, black tank in the marina, in full daylight, at the same time as a visiting entourage of local dignitaries wander past, whilst someone shouts and points this out, you will likely get a fine for it! However everyone I know in my marina discharges washing-up waste into the marina, day or night, it is common practice!
Granted I am on the south coast, and not Mugla, but with the significant amount of local daytrippers and charter businesses operating in the Mugla province, it is highly unlikely that the operators will comply!
It is even more unlikely that the Coast Guard, the Sea Police or even port authorities will apply the law to any but the most obvious or blatent offenders! Ask the locals (not the local marina)!
