Bloody 'ell.... MP actually doing something on the VAT issue!!!

[Graham376]

You're only right if you're a UK buyer wanting to sail in the UK. If you're a buyer resident in the UK or anywhere else you can get the boat delivered for export.

The rules have changed Sailaway Boats - The scheme can only be used for the private purchase of a boat for private use by an overseas visitor. They must intend to export the boat under its own power to a destination outside the UK within the time limit set out in paragraph 2.4.

UK supplier can sell you a boat for use in EU but from what I understand from the various VAT notices (703 and 703/2) you can't take delivery here, it would have to be exported by the dealer.

 

[Graham376]

It seems there is no argument about the terms for boats returning to UK so I assume doubts are about whether EU would allow RGR.

Here's what UK Gov say - Returned Goods Relief allows you to re-import goods into the EU without paying Customs Duty and VAT.

Here's what EU say - You can re-import goods into the European Union (EU) without payment of Customs Duty and Value-Added Tax (VAT).

 

[goeasy123]

Yes, and the EU VAT or other local taxes are due. There's no choice in which taxes you pay, as I said, you have to pay the tax due based on where the boat goes. There's literally nothing there for a builder to advise or have a view on, it's simply the law.

There is no situation where someone would want a boat for export and pay UK taxes before they leave. That's also not advice, again it's just the way the taxes work.

Not true. Apparently, you can buy a boat in the UK, tax free and for export. You then have to sail it away. HMRC care not where you go. In fact, if you want to circumnavigate, taking more than 3 years, this is the only way to do it without having to pay the taxes twice. This is what the original owner of my boat did. It was not imported into any country to have tax levied.

It was only taxed, at the lower 'old boat' rate when he wanted to settle in the EU. Now, post Brexit, as an UK citizen he could return to the EU (but not the UK) under TI rules.

 

[lustyd]

But if you remain in the UK with it you'll be arrested for tax fraud, so my point stands, you need to pay the relevant taxes, it's not optional

 

[Graham376]

Not true. Apparently, you can buy a boat in the UK, tax free and for export. You then have to sail it away. HMRC care not where you go. In fact, if you want to circumnavigate, taking more than 3 years, this is the only way to do it without having to pay the taxes twice. This is what the original owner of my boat did. It was not imported into any country to have tax levied.

It was only taxed, at the lower 'old boat' rate when he wanted to settle in the EU. Now, post Brexit, as an UK citizen he could return to the EU (but not the UK) under TI rules.

It appears you can no longer buy to sail away yourself, the dealer has to export it. The rules changed this year, read para 2.2 & 2.5 here - Sailaway boats supplied for export outside the UK (VAT Notice 703/2) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

[Robchapman]

So, can I buy a boat in the US, as a UK citizen, put her on the UK register, sail her to Holland (or any Schengen country) and berth her there for 18 months under the temporary import rules.
Then sail to the UK and pay VAT on her current value?

 

[Tranona]

So, can I buy a boat in the US, as a UK citizen, put her on the UK register, sail her to Holland (or any Schengen country) and berth her there for 18 months under the temporary import rules.
Then sail to the UK and pay VAT on her current value?

Yes - but to fully comply with the law when you import it into the UK it will require certification to the appropriate category of the RCR which is the post Brexit equivalent of RCD. This is often impossible to achieve with a US built boat without considerable expense of post construction assessment. This includes analysis of the design and often replacement of much of the equipment particularly the engine which may not meet European specs. This certification , if it is achieved will only be valid in the UK , not in the EU, so the boat could not be sold there.

 

[rotrax]

Yes - but to fully comply with the law when you import it into the UK it will require certification to the appropriate category of the RCR which is the post Brexit equivalent of RCD. This is often impossible to achieve with a US built boat without considerable expense of post construction assessment. This includes analysis of the design and often replacement of much of the equipment particularly the engine which may not meet European specs. This certification , if it is achieved will only be valid in the UK , not in the EU, so the boat could not be sold there.

All recent Island Packets comply with RCD.

They have done since1997 AFAIK.

 

[Tranona]

All recent Island Packets comply with RCD.

They have done since1997 AFAIK.

One of the rare ones and probably not economic to import as they hold their price well compared with many other US brands. Would still require some changes for a US spec boat as although the design is OK some of the equipment for US spec will vary from that of EU spec. Worth looking at the Captain Q youtubes to see the range of quality US boats that are available for modest sums that would be worth importing if it were not for the certification issues.

 

[OceanWaver]

Yes - but to fully comply with the law when you import it into the UK it will require certification to the appropriate category of the RCR which is the post Brexit equivalent of RCD. This is often impossible to achieve with a US built boat without considerable expense of post construction assessment. This includes analysis of the design and often replacement of much of the equipment particularly the engine which may not meet European specs. This certification , if it is achieved will only be valid in the UK , not in the EU, so the boat could not be sold there.

Sorry for coming into this late and accepting that perhaps much has changed since B*****! I am interested in the implications if importing a German-built, US-registered boat, currently in Canada to the UK... Some room for confusion here, I fear. I was looking at the Cruising Association web-page (Brexit News: EU tariffs on US-origin boats being removed from 1 January 2021 | CA) which states:

"Good news
The good news for UK-based yachtsmen is that from the end of the Brexit Transition Period on 31 December 2020, the EU retaliatory tariffs no longer apply to imports into the UK. In the absence of a trade agreement between the UK and the USA, the UK Global Tariff scheme will apply and this removes the 25% duty on yachts and boats."

What does this mean? Very grateful for any expertise out there.

Compliance to UK standards. If bringing a Dehler into the UK, aside from 110-240v conversion would there be many areas to survey / change to meet the UK RCR standard - I'm assuming very little difference from extant EU CE standards, and would those have been the spec built to on export to North America - is this not a given?
Tax due. If no EU retaliatory tariffs exist, what must I pay? UK's 20% VAT? At what rate on an old boat (circa 25 years old) - simply the purchase price or value (and how is that judged? Comparison with equivalent UK / EU examples?)?
Other fees. Import duties if no trade agreement is currently in place with the US and or any export taxes / luxury / sales taxes in the US?

Am I missing anything else? It's a bit of a minefield.

Thanks

 

[Tranona]

Sorry for coming into this late and accepting that perhaps much has changed since B*****! I am interested in the implications if importing a German-built, US-registered boat, currently in Canada to the UK... Some room for confusion here, I fear. I was looking at the Cruising Association web-page (Brexit News: EU tariffs on US-origin boats being removed from 1 January 2021 | CA) which states:

"Good news
The good news for UK-based yachtsmen is that from the end of the Brexit Transition Period on 31 December 2020, the EU retaliatory tariffs no longer apply to imports into the UK. In the absence of a trade agreement between the UK and the USA, the UK Global Tariff scheme will apply and this removes the 25% duty on yachts and boats."

What does this mean? Very grateful for any expertise out there.

Compliance to UK standards. If bringing a Dehler into the UK, aside from 110-240v conversion would there be many areas to survey / change to meet the UK RCR standard - I'm assuming very little difference from extant EU CE standards, and would those have been the spec built to on export to North America - is this not a given?
Tax due. If no EU retaliatory tariffs exist, what must I pay? UK's 20% VAT? At what rate on an old boat (circa 25 years old) - simply the purchase price or value (and how is that judged? Comparison with equivalent UK / EU examples?)?
Other fees. Import duties if no trade agreement is currently in place with the US and or any export taxes / luxury / sales taxes in the US?

Am I missing anything else? It's a bit of a minefield.

Thanks

Welcome.

AFAIK no import duty on yachts over 12m. VAT payable on value of boat plus shipping costs. if you have just bought the bought then the purchase price would be the market value. Otherwise it is up to you to submit a value, based on market value perhaps covered by a surveyor valuation. You should speak to HMRC on the number given in this link www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-8-sailing-your-pleasure-craft-to-and-from-the-uk

Certification is a whole new world. As I understand it the UK standard is the same as the existing EU RCD but imports will still require a post construction assessment. However a boat built 25 years ago for the US market would not necessarily meat the current RCD as there have been a number of significant changes since then. Also it would not have met the RCD even then because there are differences required by the N American standards.

Afraid this raises more questions than answers and suggest you really need to talk to the RYA who know more about what is going on - although suspect there has been very little real experience of actual imports since 1 January. Importing used boats from the US has been problematic for many years because of the difficulties with certification. However under the old EU rules boats originally built in the EEA were exempt. Even then the cost of shipping and VAT usually made it uneconomic anyway.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[OceanWaver]

Thanks Tranona, really useful.