Blocked Intercoolers

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Deleted User YDKXO

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Earlier this year, my Cat engines were serviced and the engineer who did the job reported that the intercoolers on both of my engines were partially blocked with crud and salt and quoted 38 labour hours for removing, cleaning and refitting them which is going to work out more than €2000 in total. I haven't noticed any difference in the coolant temperature guages this season and they do not show any increase when the engines are run at WOT for a few minutes.

So, what does the learned panel think?

1. Stupid question. How can the engineer tell that the intercooler is partially blocked without removing it and taking it apart?

2. Is it worth doing if I've seen no rise in coolant temperature? Would I see a slight increase in performance if I had them done?

3. Is 38 hours reasonable for the job? Seems very high to me but then what do I know. Can I save some of the hours by doing some of the menial stuff myself?

Any advice appreciated
 
I know of plenty of old boats (20-40 years) that have not needed unblocking.

The trouble with not servicing your own boat yourself is not knowing what has gone on, with a new boat like yours I assume something has gone wrong with the translation what he could mean is

" oh sorry I snapped off the engine anode into your cooler, the only way to get it out is strip down, it was my fault but you have got loads of money so you can pay for it, only one needs doing , its not an easy job, I hate it so I will only do one but charge for both"

The anode will erode in a couple of seasons any way and then just wash its self out.


edit

sorry I read as heat exchangers /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Salt dissolves 1st time out doesn't it
 
Hi mike do you have 3126 engines?? he may have connected a gauge into the raw water system ran the engines and taken a flow pressure reading, if its above 4psi then there may be a problem, it could also be the heat exchanger or gearbox cooler thats slowing the water flow down.

Look at it the otherway, he might be short of work???.

I suppose 1k a side sounds a lot but it is euros and not pounds, though I think we will be one euro to the pound the way things are going.

Is he from the cat dealer or an independent like myself?.

There is a product caled rydelime that is sold by motortech but you need a pump, bucket, and some hoses to descale the system and a few hours labour, but that way you can do all the raw water system in one go.

He may also be saying the air side of the interccoler matrix is partially blocked with oil deposits from the turbo, that a matter of removal and degreasing an easy job IMHO, im just doing a volvo at the moment.
 
I assume CAT 3208s. I'm going from memory, since it is some 6 years since I had them, but it went something like this.

Wait for engines to reach maximum temp - about 90?.
When thermostats open, time to drop to normal working temp - about 82?- and stay there should be about 7 secs.
Longer than 10 or 12 secs and you've the first signs of blockage.

If yours are running at normal temp., even when driven hard, there probably isn't a problem. It won't affect performance.

38 hours sounds highly excessive. Imagine spending a week full time to do it!

Edit

Oops! I read it as heat exchangers too! Sorry.
On the 3208, the intercooler is a hefty lump. If you don't have much headroom, it could be a pain to remove. If the intercooler is blocked, you would lose performance. If the coolant system is working OK (see above) and performance hasn't fallen off, I wouldnt worry.
One other question. If it is the 3208, does it have the old aluminium intercooler cooling water flanges or the newer bronze ones? The aluminium ones rot and let seawater into the engine inlet - not nice. Most should have been changed by now. Engines built from June 1999 - from engine number 01Z32821 - had bronze flanges fitted.
 
Hi Paul, no I have 3208TA engines. The engineer is an indie and I have used him before and he's very thorough (he's German) so I tend to trust him but it's a lot of money to throw at a problem which may not be a major issue yet
 
Mike

Is this the same engineer that wanted to charge you a ridiculous number of hours to run a new throttle cable to your flybridge?

perhaps we should offer Volvopaul a free holiday in Mallorca in exchange for a bit of boaty work /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
No, wasn't him but, yes, Balearic labour rates are getting a bit OTT IMHO especially with the £/€ as good as 1/1. What do you pay your mechanic up in Alcudia per hour?
 
Think its about €40 per hour but they are very good and don't rip me off on hours charged. I'm very happy with them but they are considering packing it in after next year to go cruising around the Med.
 
I stand to be corrected, but I don' think so. I have the same engines as you and also have one which runs on the hot side at near max revs. I have been told it is a partially blocked heat exchanger which lies under the header tank and thermostat unit, Removal is about one hours labour and I am using Medway Ultrasonics www.ultrasonic.co.uk to clean through the exchanger. Interestingly they weigh the unit before and after treatment so you can see how much crud has been removed. cheers Geoff
 
Huh ive done the injection pumps on the silver anniversary engines in a broom 44 the 435hp lumps, yes the intercoolers massive! and heavy and has to come off to remove the pump, from memory it took about 3 hours to remove the pump, its not that difficult in a broom however im not sure about your engineroom layout.

If you can see corrosion where the 2 water pipes inlet and exit the alloy housing then you have trouble as the bronze part of the intercooler reacts with the alloy and causes the problem, quite right as already sin in a previous post the sea water can enter the air inlet but only if the bronze part has collapsed.

The bronze part has an o ring that seals the water pipe to it and a plastic sleeve, this was done on the broom as a matter of cause, ive also done this on the same engines in a princess 440, again through corrosion and for some reason 1 engine had to have a full rebuild as the piston rings were worn and the engine was breathing heavy, maybe this was due to sea water being mixed with the inlet air.

Another thing for you to worry about as per the broom 44 job is an erratic tickover and stalling when slow speed running.

These old style injection pumps dont like bad diesel and certainly dont like, according to CAT soltron or any additives to combat poor fuel, it sludges up the working internals of the pump causing poor performance, smoking and stalling as the governor and fuel rack cannot stabalise quick enough the set an even speed, you have been warned!.

Mike I would consider having your injectors tested at the same time as the engine will be stripped down to a point that makes it easier as some of the injector pipes may have to be removed to enable the cooler to come off.

I have worked abroad but on a friendly basis on a few occasions, its not nice watching everyone enjoying thereselves when working in the blazing sun!!
 
Thnx Paul. When I bought the boat in 2005, the engine surveyor advised me to change what he called the 'top hat' units at the intercooler inlets which I did get changed. In fact he said that the original top hats were made of aluminium but Cat changed them for brass because the aluminium ones were prone to cracking. I assume these top hats are the items to which you are referring?
Touch wood, I've never suffered erratic idling or stalling on either engine. In fact both engines have been as good as gold. But I have regularly used Soltron and then Startron in the fuel. The filters have always remained very clean and, again touch wood, I've never had any fuel probs. The engines are now 8 yrs/600 hours old. Do you think the injectors need servicing?
I've recently put the boat on the market so I'm keen to avoid any unnecessary expense but I will spend the money if it needs doing especially since it will probably take a long time to sell
 
[ QUOTE ]
I've recently put the boat on the market

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh No! And then there was one......................
 
We're definitely talking 3208TA not 3116 or 3126 which as you say are different animals
 
No sweat Meddy, I do plan to buy another one but the way the market is I'll probably have this one for a long while yet
 
Thanks for that, mine are in a Sea Ray 400 so aware of that site, although have not yet looked for engine postings....will do soon.

As you say, Boat Diesel.com is very scarey. They would have you believe that the Cats we have are only good as spare anchors!

Thanks

GL
 
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