Bits that aren’t meant for live aboard.

[ QUOTE ]

Not a very clever design - but maybe its designed to make us all buy new ones - which I agree is a lot easier.

[/ QUOTE ]In July 2007 we were expecting guests to stay for a week, at anchor, in San Antonio. I decided to service the guest loo as it was playing up a bit. After changing all the rubber parts I had the problem with the screw threads stripping; epoxy didn't work for me and I didn't have much time. So I bought a new pump assembly from the chandler and fitted that -- and water came pouring out of the top! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I had to tighten down to make a seal and while I did manage it I am 99% sure that the plastic is starting to strip.

So even new ones can be a problem. Don't rely on it. I suspect that the only really safe solution is to drill out the holes and put long bolts in, with washers and nuts.
 
Richard it is really good to see you back.


Our jabsco’s get used a lot and my experience is broadly in line with everyone else here. I don’t fight them I overpower them with attention and TLC… I bash the pipes out, I suppose I use three ‘major (ie expensive)’ service kits and a good few bottles of chemicals a year. Strangely, I have not had a problem with the screw threads.

This level of involvement implies that they are not up to the job of live aboard. I did not spend the same sort of time or money on the toilets when we lived in a house. But I have got used to them and I know how to keep them going so I will not bother to change them.

best wishes
 
Having changed from weekend sailor to liveabourd about five years ago I know that the usage equipment gets from liveaboard use is tremendous.
On weekending (+holidays) you get about 80days sailing in a good year wheras liveaboards do the full 365 days. ie about 4.5 times as much use.(someone else can work out the number of flushes involved!)
Having said that I have found that most bits of kit including Jabso toilets and pumps last very well.and I have no complaints. (Vinegar and olive oil for the toilet and you can use the leftovers on the salad)
I think that leaving equipment idle for long periods may be more harmful than constant use with good maintenance.(vinegar and olive oil for the toilet and you can use the leftovers on the salad)
 
OK, from a novice yank now coming into the med,
what is HCI, and if its sold in all the supermarkets,
under what should I look for and where?
in the states, I used a periodic muriatic acid but that is
bad stuff and I don't like to carry it.
thanks, Rickf S/V Calaloo
 
HCl is Hydrochloric Acid Also known as Muriatic in parts of the Med. If the container is sealed and you store it in a sensible place it isn't a problem. We keep ours in the toilet compartments which have shower sumps so if there was a spill it would end up in the shower drain and could be flushed harmlessly.

Don't use bleach down the toilet with HCl or you will get poisonous gas given off. Seriously dangerous -- there have been deaths.
 
My long history of problems with RM69 toilets (three replacement toilets, seven replacement pump/valve units!) seems to have been the test bed for their development. I had the same problems with self-tappers holding the valve unit and the discharge manifold together but immediately the problem arose I managed to obtain a replacement, through the superb service of my chandler at Hellevoetsluis. The later versions of the toilet have had all self-tappers replaced by bolts, so at least this problem has been overcome by using better engineering.

Recently I have had problems with the diverter valve and holding tank but RM have reacted well and supplied new parts FOC.
 
Lemain, any idea what I am looking for to get HCl in Portugal? Been in quite a few supermarkets in the last few days since you originally suggested it and cant see any. The only corrosive stuff seems to be alkali.

What sort of size bottles does it come in? Any brand names?.....but then I can never find the tomato sauce when I look in a fridge.

Dr Bob
 
[ QUOTE ]
Does HCl react with bronze? I have fought shy of using it because of a fear of damaging my outlet seacock. Unjustified?

[/ QUOTE ]I had the same fears. I reasoned that the HCl is fairly weak by the time it reaches the seacock and that since the seacock is open to the sea, the concentration of acid will fall off very quickly. So I started to use it and next time I had the seacocks apart (around 18 months later) there was no evidence of any corrosion at all. My father used HCl every few days for decades and never had any problems. Englander, who posts here also uses it. Reply not as scientific as you'd like, but there you go.

I used to use a good teacup of Spanish supermarket (Mercadona) agua fuerte added to a bowl completely full of fresh or seawater (preferably hand-hot) and pump that through slowly, adding some old chip oil at the end for lubrication. I then leave for at least a few hours. The idea is that the pipe stays full of acid water -- though of course that is not quite what happens as you have the anti-syphon loop. Anyway, that technique works fine.

The HCl we are getting in Italy is not as strong and I use half as much again. You don't want to mess about with tiny amounts....see for yourself how much acid is needed to descale the kettle.
 
Our jabsco has been v good even with year round use and a bit of TLC, though nothing like the descriptions here. Lube (whether olive oil or the purpose made) makes a big difference. When we did replace the one on board when we bought it, we researched whether to get a Lavacs and decded for the price it wasn't worth it, and have not regretted that decision.

Other items:

wallas diesel cooker - don't go there!
Saucepans with handles - we recently bought a set with detachable handles and don't know how we survived without
fridge pump - the raw water intake on our fridge pump has given us a lot of grief in our 5.5 years afloat
Elderly cats (rather than kittens) - never really took to it!

So far and touch wood otherwise our problems are with things like teeth (mine) and kilns (really not a good idea on a GRP boat)
 
amazing!the number of responses to toilet problems of liveaboards.I have been living aboard for 18 years ,with Jabsco toilets , and have indeed replaced them both during this timescale.
I agree with most of the comments regarding onboard maintenance but normally it is the top seal that causes the first problem and this can easily be prevented by the regular application of silicone grease to the pump shaft ,I'm talking once a month ,I promise you this works and can sometimes cure the problem even after it has started to leak!
 
In the UK I think it's sold as Spirits of Salt.
Serious stuff.. But I'd be wary of chucking it down my Jabsco.
It warns against contact with metal, and I'd worry about it's effect on the pump shaft and the flapper valve thingy. Having said that, Lemain seems not have a problem, so it might just be over cautiousness by the manufacturer.
 
[ QUOTE ]
In the UK I think it's sold as Spirits of Salt.
Serious stuff.. But I'd be wary of chucking it down my Jabsco.
It warns against contact with metal, and I'd worry about it's effect on the pump shaft and the flapper valve thingy. Having said that, Lemain seems not have a problem, so it might just be over cautiousness by the manufacturer.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, Spirits of Salt(s) is the common name for HCl in the UK. You can buy it in Dyas but they keep it in the storeroom as it is so terribly dangerous for British Citizens to use. Spanish, Italian, and French Citizens have no problems, however, and can buy it in all supermarkets, alongside bleach (which will create chlorine gas if mixed with HCl).

HCl is the active ingredient in practically all liquid descalers such as Harpic toilet liquid and Viakall. Hapic liquid and Viakall cost around £1.50 for a very dilute solution. On the continent, HCl costs around €0.60 per litre for fuming HCl - enough to make around 10 to 20 litres of Harpic or Viakall.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread (and have posted many times in the past) I find the best way is to fill the Jabsco toilet right up to the brim (I use hot fresh water) and then add a good teacup of HCl. This then brings the concentration down to a level below that of Harpic, and is ideal for pumping through the system. Filling to the brim descales the entire area under the rim.

I don't have any problem with deteriorating parts inside my Jabscos and they are in daily use as liveaboards, year-round. The pump shaft is completely immune in any case, being stainless steel and the rest of the parts are plastic apart from one little spring and that has always been fine as well. I can assure you that using HCl as I describe is perfectly safe for your Jabsco.

Whether it is cost effective in the UK is another matter. ISTR that Dyas charge £3 or 4 for a small bottle /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

It is time that Brits demanded an affordable supply of basic chemicals such as HCl. Another one is IPA -- Isopropyl Alcohol. That's what is used professionally for cleaning electronic kit such as TVs, computer screens, etc. It costs around €0.80 per litre in the supermarkets on the continent but in the UK you have to pay several pounds for a few ml from PC World.
 
I have no personal experience of the Baby Blake but HCl does not harm steel components or most plastics. It does stain stainless steel, but that doesn't matter for internal components. HCl is an absolute NO for vitreous enamel (i.e. enamel paint baked onto steel) and will strip the enamel coating off. Otherwise, should be fine.
 
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