Biodiesel

B5 ... B7 .. and so on is EU requirement and all Diesel in UK is subject to EU standards under the EN designations.

The number after the B denotes the % of FAME (biofuel). FAME is the product resulting from treatment of such as Palm Oil, Rapeseed Oil, Sunflower Oil etc. (Fatty Acid Methyl Ether).

In concentrations of up to 10% it should not create problems .... but FAME is subject to its hygroscopic characteristic. Its extremely difficult to determine moisture content because of its density and closeness to that of water.

My knowledge of this stems from many years of fuel blending ... Gasolines and Diesels for EU and other markets. In fact my company looked after for years a large % of the UK, French and German volumes.

Please appreciate that I am also held by commercial confidentiality on some aspects.

But over some years - I was consulted by RATS and other UK / International bodies about the effects of White ULSD and Biofuels to Yachts ...

The report highlighted in the OP - I happen to know Ineos very well and the report is extremely 'iffy' to say the least !!

Lets put it another way .... I have no reason to stop using B7 or B10 over here in temps dropping to -25C .... as long as I use winter grade.

The report mentions farmers stocking up on diesel. No mention of whether that's summer or winter grade ... there's a huge difference in COLD FILTER Plugging Point ... where paraffins drop out of the diesel as it cools ... this then blocks the filters.
My Companys specialise in adding the required CFPP agents to fuels as well as blends. It is known and treated that FAME can inhibit CFPP additives - but that is known and tested for.
 
In the UK, coastal marinas are still allowed to supply "marine" diesel. This isn't the ULSD, FAME added stuff the farmers use. So ask your marina what they sell.
 
Refueler said:
B5 ... B7 .. and so on is EU requirement and all Diesel in UK is subject to EU standards under the EN designations.

The number after the B denotes the % of FAME (biofuel). FAME is the product resulting from treatment of such as Palm Oil, Rapeseed Oil, Sunflower Oil etc. (Fatty Acid Methyl Ether).

In concentrations of up to 10% it should not create problems .... but FAME is subject to its hygroscopic characteristic. Its extremely difficult to determine moisture content because of its density and closeness to that of water.

My knowledge of this stems from many years of fuel blending ... Gasolines and Diesels for EU and other markets. In fact my company looked after for years a large % of the UK, French and German volumes.

Please appreciate that I am also held by commercial confidentiality on some aspects.

But over some years - I was consulted by RATS and other UK / International bodies about the effects of White ULSD and Biofuels to Yachts ...

The report highlighted in the OP - I happen to know Ineos very well and the report is extremely 'iffy' to say the least !!

Lets put it another way .... I have no reason to stop using B7 or B10 over here in temps dropping to -25C .... as long as I use winter grade.

The report mentions farmers stocking up on diesel. No mention of whether that's summer or winter grade ... there's a huge difference in COLD FILTER Plugging Point ... where paraffins drop out of the diesel as it cools ... this then blocks the filters.
My Companys specialise in adding the required CFPP agents to fuels as well as blends. It is known and treated that FAME can inhibit CFPP additives - but that is known and tested for.
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Many years ago here in Ireland, it was customary to be supplied with winter and summer grade diesel, in the respective seasons, but due to haphazard planning, etc, many users would have found themselves with summer grade fuel in their tanks on or after the beginning of winter. This was generally not a problem, due to the temperate climate, but as a result of many hundreds of vehicles and agricultural/construction plant becoming immobilised during an unaccustomed severe cold snap, it was decided that winter grade fuel should be supplied all year round. Perhaps this policy would stop the problem in the UK.
 
UK ... and similar areas :

Summer grade is usually better than the spec required and usually around the -6C level ...

Winter grade is usually -16C.

As you go into Norway and Baltics of course the specs get lower and lower ... till in fact diesel cannot meet the required temp. Then Kerosine usually takes over as in Nanuk Arctic Grade ....

Reference : BS-EN 590 and its later addendums

Its also the reason Russian trucks etc. were for years gasoline powered to survive the severe winters until the tech to get diesels low enough ...
 
Refueler said:
B5 ... B7 .. and so on is EU requirement and all Diesel in UK is subject to EU standards under the EN designations.

The number after the B denotes the % of FAME (biofuel). FAME is the product resulting from treatment of such as Palm Oil, Rapeseed Oil, Sunflower Oil etc. (Fatty Acid Methyl Ether).

In concentrations of up to 10% it should not create problems .... but FAME is subject to its hygroscopic characteristic. Its extremely difficult to determine moisture content because of its density and closeness to that of water.

My knowledge of this stems from many years of fuel blending ... Gasolines and Diesels for EU and other markets. In fact my company looked after for years a large % of the UK, French and German volumes.

Please appreciate that I am also held by commercial confidentiality on some aspects.

But over some years - I was consulted by RATS and other UK / International bodies about the effects of White ULSD and Biofuels to Yachts ...

The report highlighted in the OP - I happen to know Ineos very well and the report is extremely 'iffy' to say the least !!

Lets put it another way .... I have no reason to stop using B7 or B10 over here in temps dropping to -25C .... as long as I use winter grade.

The report mentions farmers stocking up on diesel. No mention of whether that's summer or winter grade ... there's a huge difference in COLD FILTER Plugging Point ... where paraffins drop out of the diesel as it cools ... this then blocks the filters.
My Companys specialise in adding the required CFPP agents to fuels as well as blends. It is known and treated that FAME can inhibit CFPP additives - but that is known and tested for.
Click to expand...

Refueler
we sail in Greece and have had many years of using fame - I understand nearly 10%. I regularly drain the sludge off the bottom with a propers sump and 3/4 inch tap. Each year, I get a dirty colour diesel and about 200ml of a black waxy liquid that falls to the bottom of the clear 2 ltr bottles which I drain the diesel into.

This year I did an experiment and introduced about 20 ml into my racor 500 filter (just before I did the annual filter change) and the result was startling - the filter blocked instantly, with the black waxy substance in evidence on the surface.......

I wonder how much of this crap is accumulated in yacht's tanks which dont have the benefit of a proper draining sump?

What is this black waxy liquid? FAME dropout?
 
PaulRainbow said:
In the UK, coastal marinas are still allowed to supply "marine" diesel. This isn't the ULSD, FAME added stuff the farmers use. So ask your marina what they sell.
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MDO (Marine Diesel Oil) is a particular grade that is NOT and will never be available to yachties ... it is a low grade darker, heavier grade diesel specifically for ships use ...

Second ULSD is White Road Diesel

Third Bio usually in form of FAME is a required addition to ALL diesels road, yachtie, farmer ...

Red Diesel as supplied to Industrial / Agricultural and Marine Pleasure use is White Low Sulphur Diesel with Red Dye / Yellow Marker added. There is literally no diesel in UK / EU now that does not have Bio added .... its a stated requirement of EU grades - that includes UK. In fact we are all lucky that Bio levels are not higher as the specs could not be met that EU and others required in stages. Basically production of Bio could not meet the demand.The only difference apart from colour is the Sulphur content. But that is changing as well as Low Sulphur Diesel is now the staple base of red. Ultra Low is still to hit the Red market ... but it will.

Over the last few years - we are finding it harder to harder to move cargoes of 500ppm or higher Su (gasoils) diesel. Market is demanding lower levels now ... 10ppm and lower. Even the shipping market in january will be forced into low Su fuel use. For a number of years ships have had to change to gasoil use in EU / North Europe waters instead of the usual Fuel Oil in their engines.

I blend the bl***y stuff !!
 
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Chris_Robb said:
Refueler
we sail in Greece and have had many years of using fame - I understand nearly 10%. I regularly drain the sludge off the bottom with a propers sump and 3/4 inch tap. Each year, I get a dirty colour diesel and about 200ml of a black waxy liquid that falls to the bottom of the clear 2 ltr bottles which I drain the diesel into.

This year I did an experiment and introduced about 20 ml into my racor 500 filter (just before I did the annual filter change) and the result was startling - the filter blocked instantly, with the black waxy substance in evidence on the surface.......

I wonder how much of this crap is accumulated in yacht's tanks which dont have the benefit of a proper draining sump?

What is this black waxy liquid? FAME dropout?
Click to expand...

I would suggest you have a Bugs problem ..... you may have parafins settling from the fuel but I doubt it being Greece and its ambient temps. It should never reach low enough temp.

One of the problems of Bio is the moisture part. You all know about Bugs in Diesel and use of killer additives such as Soltron .. Startron etc. Its micro-organisms that live in the boundary and high moisture layers of the diesel. There are others SRB's - Sulphur Reducing Bacteria that live in the rest of the diesel. Basically you cannot now control the moisture content of your fuel by draining of water etc as you used to be able to do.
They all die and you get a dark brown to black sludge collects in the tank. If this passes into the fuel lines - it will clog your filters faster than a rabbit gets ***** !

Enzyme based additives like Startron etc. are good to break this down and it can pass through and be burnt in the engine.

I actually use the Enzyme Additive myself as a regular squirt into my tank. Despite my commercial knowledge of all this - I suffered badly one cruise in Swedish Islands ... every few days I had to change filter when it clogged. Engine would start slowing and then hunting from fuel starvation.
Now 8 years later and that squirt of Enzyme at start of season and an odd squirt during the year - never had a problem again.

I suggest you do your syphon out ... add Enzyme to the fuel and let it break up whatever is left in there ... it will also kill whats still 'floating around'.

Disclaimer : I can only go by what description given - which indicates Micro Organism contamination of the fuel. I cannot be held responsible without actually sighting the item directly.
 
I'm not talking about low grade ship stuff.

I'm talking about the stuff the coastal marinas sell for sea going boats, such as mine. This is not white ULSD with added red dye. This has a higher sulphur content
 
Graham376 said:
My guess would be that they've been supplied with summer diesel which doesn't have the winter anti-waxing additives. A bit surprised at the problem though as temperatures haven't been too low so far this year.
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Simple 'kitchen sink' test to see if so .... add gasoline or Kerosine, anything up to 10%, to the diesel and then run it ... the light distillate fuel breaks up the paraffins that drop out of summer grade in winter temps. If the engine runs ok ... that's the problem. But the mix must be MIXED ... not just poured in ...
 
Refueler said:
Third Bio usually in form of FAME is a required addition to ALL diesels road, yachtie, farmer ...
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You clearly know what you're talking about, Refueler, but my understanding is otherwise, at least so far as the EU is concerned. My (last...maybe a year ago) understanding of the EU-mandated % of bio in fuels was expressed in terms of a supplying company's gross fuel products in the market. In other words, if they put x% more bio than the mandated level in some fuels, they could legitimately put less (or none) in others. You may know better, and can enlighten us.
 
PaulRainbow said:
I'm not talking about low grade ship stuff.

I'm talking about the stuff the coastal marinas sell for sea going boats, such as mine. This is not white ULSD with added red dye. This has a higher sulphur content
Click to expand...

READ MY POST ...

I stated clearly that Red Diesel is Low Sulphur Diesel with Red dye ... I stated clearly it is NOT Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel.

YOU are in MY territory now ... I work every day with the bl***y stuff ... thousands of tons of all grades ...

Why do you think RYA and Cruising Association used my advice and consultation when sulphur and Bio levels were changing ?
 
OK a little explanation:

ULSD is the general road diesel and now a new grade of even lower sulphur level is appearing and going to via the pump. ULSD = Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel.

Agricultural, pleasure boats incl seagoing, other regulated authorised users have Red Diesel which is a Low Sulphur Diesel with a specified level of persistent Red dye added. To combat those who used to try using Fullers Earth to filter out the Red Dye - Customs and Excise require a Yellow Chemical Marker as well. You cannot remove that marker. When C&E test a tank - they test for Red and if necessary for the Yellow Indicator.

The old higher sulphur diesels have been phased out and only occur for bulk blending now.

When sulphur levels were reduced universally - the lubricity values of the fuel were affected. This led to excessive wear in pumps and general. Special test equipment was rushed into use and Lubricity additives produced to compensate. This has now been generally sorted and LCO is the usual remedy introduced into the blend.
Along comes Bio and another problem appears ... pump seals. Older engines some - could not use biofuel and needed modification. This is another item that has basically been resolved - but I would caution anyone with an older engine in their boat not to use the full 100% Bio Fuels you can get on the continent.

I hope that helps understand a bit more ..

I resisted cutting and pasting techno of BS-EN590 and its addendums ... I think my novels are long enough !!
 
awol said:
I believe ISO 8217 prohibits the addition of FAME but I am leerie that, at the quantities marinas consume, the refineries actually delivery that rather than BS EN 2869. Any thoughts?
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The problem actually is that prohibition is not a zero figure ... its like Ethylene in gasoline etc. but that's another story. Second ISO 8217 : 2017 ... and on from 2012 is dealing with Marine Diesel Engines - of ships and Commercial... not a yacht engine.

BS EN 2869 as you correctly indicate is the RED Standard and is currently at 10ppm Sulphur. Not so long ago Red was actually 500ppm and before that 2000ppm Sulphur.

Its not actually the Refinerys job to produce many of the final products for market. That's where companys like mine come in ... working with the Traders. As you suspect - due to the volumes and limitations of refining - the same diesel will commonly cross the market lines ... its why I talk about BS EN 590 and its addendums. BS EN 2869 is basically a follow on ...

To reduce Sulphur content of fuels is actually not easy - as it needs Refinerys to 'wash' the fuel ... it cannot be done post refining. Its the Holy Grail of my business .... if anyone could produce an additive to cut Sulphur content - they'd make a fortune. We can reduce Sulphur based Mercaptans ... Hydrogen Sulphides etc. but not Sulphur alone. You can now understand that Refinery is then geared to production and cannot alter to cater for a limited market.

I have resisted dragging out my tech files ... so I would like to keep it simple ?
 
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I hear people's worries about road bio diesel but, in common with thousands of other users in Europe have been using it exclusively in the boat for 12 years and occasionally for 5 years before that, without any problems whatsoever. Rarely, compared to UK, hear of bug in local boats. Going back 50+ years when I worked on plant hire, we sometimes added petrol to diesel in winter to help stop waxing and when I was working on the M6 construction in the Lake District, we sometimes lit fires under the tanks of plant which had been standing for a day or two.
 
Graham376 said:
I hear people's worries about road bio diesel but, in common with thousands of other users in Europe have been using it exclusively in the boat for 12 years and occasionally for 5 years before that, without any problems whatsoever. Rarely, compared to UK, hear of bug in local boats. Going back 50+ years when I worked on plant hire, we sometimes added petrol to diesel in winter to help stop waxing and when I was working on the M6 construction in the Lake District, we sometimes lit fires under the tanks of plant which had been standing for a day or two.
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What did I say ? Absolutely ..
 
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