bilge/twin keels + rough weather

[tdsail]

hi all,
I am posting to see if anyone has comments and experience with twin keelers in rough weather...i am planning extended passage with my little 24ft twin keel yacht and was wondering major differences between them and long keels...

 

[Oldhombre]

I grew up with a 26 foot bilge keeler and now sail a 35 foot long keeler. There is no comparison. With the bilge keeler we would frequently get waves slapping just inside the windward keel when well heeled and very occasionally when straight ahead over a big wave, the tunnel between the keels would gulp a bit of air and we would slap down hard. With the long keel it carves its way through without a crash or bang regardless of how big the wave. However on one hand we could sneak into water less than 3 feet deep whereas now I need 5 feet and on the other hand the bilge keeler would sit up straight on sand or trailer whereas the long or fin keeler obviously needs help on dry ground. Some of the newer lightweight fin keelers can equally slap their noses down in any sort of sea but they are faster than the traditional long keeler. What it comes down to is horses for courses. Of course a bilge keeler will handle the rough stuff much better than the crew but for deep blue water give me a long keeler anytime as it will keep on going faster through much bigger waves.

 

[tdsail]

yes I used to have a long keel 29ftr and she handled well but i havent really experienced rough weather in my current twin keeler so was hopefull that it may be suitable for longer cruising as with the exception of the keels (and windows which are now sorted) she's a mighty fine yacht...

 

[Refueler]

There are no real reasons why Twin or Bilge Keeler should not go extended and offshore etc. I cross baltic / channel with a 25ft Bilge Keeler ....

Centaurs have crossed the Atlantic - in fact one was featured in PBO many years ago and the mods the guy did to make her more seatight viz windows / hatches etc.

When first encountering heavy seas - as others have mentioned the slamming between keels .... sometimes it can be real teeth rattling ! When it gets like that trick is to ease off and alter course a touch ...

I am a supporter of the twin keel concept, a) cause that's what I have, b) I can dry out / lift ashore without need for cradles / props etc. c) shallow creek crawling draft.
I grew up on long keel boats - father had hilyards as well as others through the years ... so was well on my way to decision as to config. when it came to buy my own !

 

[tdsail]

Sounds good to me....I guess I was weighing up options to either go now (or rather soon) on what I have pending a few changes to make her offshore ready....or wait an buy a long keeler and go later....

 

[chewi]

It depends on the hull shape in either case
Some finkeels have flat forefoots that slam, My bilge keeler has a V forefoot that doesn't.

 

[ebbtide]

If you haven't sussed the differences yet - and there are many - after coastal passages in a variety of conditions then go out and get more miles in before you venture further afield.
Sorry, not being dismissive, just encapsulating experiences on a few score boats.
IMHO saving a few pennies in not chocking off ashore can't compete with the delight of going to windward at 30 degrees apparent!
As for shallow draft,- please convince us you know how to use it with accounts of some real explorations.

 

[davidfox]

Gosh! thats exactly what you sound like, dismissive! why dont you tell us what youve done?

 

[2nd_apprentice]

Roger Taylor has a few things to say about "being shallow minded". Scroll down to the august article to read his views on bilge keels on small ocean going craft.

 

[matelot]

The issue isnt bilge / fin but boat length. I've got a 34 ft bilge keel Moody which is raced every weekend come hell or high water. Its not fun in 35 knots but then nothing is - and we certainly fare much better than the 26 ft fin and long keelers.

Boat comfort and boat safety are directly related to boat size. I dont envy you doing an extended passage in a 24 ft anything though I have a pal who has circumnavigated the UK in a 24 ft triple keel Achilles. And he used to sail mainly in winter because thats when he could be sure of wind.

 

[Blueboatman]

Hi tdsail,
I can really add nothing to Roger Taylors comments re bilgekeels. Whilst I have not ventured into high latitudes like him I did sail a sistership to his for many years , safely cruised it to the Caribbean and Canada, and used a trysail a handful of times very happily thankyou.
What really is important is that the keels are heavy enough in relation to the overall weight.
Yes you will slam a bit more-probably-when trying to go to windward in 15 knots plus but you can always motor sail a bit.
For longer passages no one seriously sails against the weather unless they have to. Downwind the extra dampening effect on rhythmic rolling (try saying that after a beer or two) is much appreciated.
I could not find a quick Google for Tornado 720/24 foot. Perhaps you can post up a piccy of the boats underwater profile for more informed comment?

Edited for spelling.

 

[Severnman]

The Achilles has a wonderful reputation for being a real seaworthy boat. Being built on the Gower for use in the Bristol Channel I have heard epics achieved on this formidable craft. I nearly bought one but the lack of headroom (for the family) put me off. Now sailing a Foxhound 24 which I consider fit for purpose for predominantly sailing single handed in the Bristol Channel. Worst weather experienced - F7 beam on, rode it like a duck.

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

[ QUOTE ]
The Achilles has a wonderful reputation for being a real seaworthy boat. Being built on the Gower for use in the Bristol Channel I have heard epics achieved on this formidable craft. I nearly bought one but the lack of headroom (for the family) put me off. Now sailing a Foxhound 24 which I consider fit for purpose for predominantly sailing single handed in the Bristol Channel. Worst weather experienced - F7 beam on, rode it like a duck.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean one of these.

 

[oldharry]

This is an Achilles:

 

[robstracey]

This is a big can of worms, in reality its a case of knowing your boat. I sail a 29' Snapdrgon 890, which has twin vertically moulded in keels. I am gradually getting more adventurous, having finally broken the 12 mile line into international waters (or the contiguous zone if you want to be fussy), and she has has never given me cause for concern. That said, my parents recently crossed Biscay in their bilge keel westerly oceanquest, which is not something i would try with Kyla, having seen it at its worst, comfortably from the bridge of a tanker.

Just know your boat, and know your limits, and match your sailing accordingly. If your boat and her crew seem happy with the heavy stuff, then go for it.

Failing that, find a nice ditch to crawl up and stop for a pint, thats why i love bilge keels, they bring you ever so much closer to the pub /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Foxy]

Hello again!

Are you heading back to OZ on the downwind route (Atlantic, Panama etc)? ..... If you are lucky you shouldnt have too much slamming heading that way for obvious reasons. Maybe a bit heading South to the Canaries , some in the Pacific and the last bit down to NZ. We have a long keeler that hardly ever slams, but we avoid heading upwind whenever possible as its a real chore when doing it for more than a few days - whatever boat you are in.