Bilge pumps - how many ?

[sarabande]

The present configuration is

1 automatic electric Whale yellow supersub 650l/min with dedicated (separate) delivery pipework to stern, pickup in shallowish bilge in main cabin

1 manual Whale Mk 5 operated from the cockpit, with dedicated (separate) delivery pipework to stern, pickup ditto.

1 manual wander pump, Patay DD120, with long intake and delivery pipework (32mm), for portability / tender/ lending etc. Prepared setup as Vyv Cox's excellent recommendation Emergency bilge pump – Cox Engineering (Thanks Vyv)

1 spare electric Rule 1100, with Anderson plug and switch, and long delivery pipe. Intended for supplementary use off contingency battery


Boat is 32ft sailing, deep keel, with shallowish bilge. It is likely that I will be doing a bit more single handed sailing, and I am being a little twitchy about setting up another automatic electric pump (Whale grey Supersub auto) in the for'd end of the boat near the shower outlet. I don't like the idea of conjoined delivery pipe to the existing main cabin pumps further aft, and am wondering about a separate collection and discharge point amidships, with power from either main domestics, or from contingency battery. This would keep shower outflow away from main pickup points.

I know the best baler is a motivated bucket operative, and intend to have good domestic battery capacity installed before re-launching (2x Rolls 210Ah, plus 1 contingency high level 110Ah, each with matched Anderson sockets, and one fly lead with Anderson socket to heavy duty crocodiles) Power to all electric pumps via manual-off-auto alarmed switches with LED,

Given that the boat is GRP 1970s, and the hull seems watertight (but I have a modest rainwater leak presently under investigation) is there such a thing as overkill ? I believe in the principles of resiliency

 

[jamie N]

2 automatic bilge pumps, 1 manual only and a manual hand pump on a wooden Folkboat, all located fairly close to the deep point of the bilge, under the engine.
The 2 automatic pumps are individually powered from different (isolated) batteries.
For my wooden boat, which does take on a little water, with great potential for much more having 4 through hull penetrators, that do have valves on them.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Could you T into the head washbasin outlet? (Assuming that the shower is there).

 

[lustyd]

After watching Zingaro have his issue I’d have to say equipment to seal the leak is far more important. Most bilge pumps have fairly meaningless rates when compared to the ingress he saw from a broken sensor. Once the hole was plugged they managed to empty the boat but all electrics were shot by that point. I wouldn’t consider it worth having backups of backups of electric bits unless you already have an installed and convenient power source above the water line.
with a manual pump half the battle is gravity so a long enough bit of hose to get into the water both sides is helpful. It obviously won’t syphon but you won’t have to lift water 2m either. Obviously if you don’t have a soft hose for filling water tanks then the standard garden hose would suffice there with a suitable fitting. A simple hand pump designed for paddle boards would do nicely there once the hose is filled.

 

[James_Calvert]

1 bilge pump, manual, operated in the cockpit.

2 buckets

1 or 2 dinghy bailers, plus a portable dinghy pump.

On the sole occasion I've had to deal with significant water in the cabin (overflowing loo, woke up see flip-flops surfing by) the dinghy bailer was the most useful device, slinging the water into the self draining cockpit or the galley sink.

 

[jamie N]

After watching Zingaro have his issue I’d have to say equipment to seal the leak is far more important.

A good point indeed, however my focus is on having an automatic redundancy when I'm not on the boat, and 'a leak becomes worse' rather than becoming catastrophic during my absence.
If I was aboard it'd be a question of stopping the ingress and remaining afloat.

 

[Poey50]

For our 32 footer (shallow bilge) with offshore ambitions which may prove to be singlehanded but otherwise a two person crew.

1. Bilge alarm near the bow close to the plastic transducer housing (the most vulnerable of the through-hulls).
2. Whale Supersub Smart 1100 under the engine.
3. Rule Automatic 4000 GPH, with heavy duty waterproof socket in cockpit, set-up offshore to assist with cockpit draining if pooped and a second socket so it can quickly be shifted to the cabin.
4. Manual Whale Gusher 10 modelled on the Vyv Cox set-up as above.

The alarm and automatic pumps are to take account of the limitations when single-handed when finding a leak and plugging it quickly is the priority. The manual pump would be more useful with two-up, or single-handed when the leak has been sealed and water needs to be cleared less frantically while saving the battery.

This gives a theoretical maximum of automatic pumping of 318 litres per minute and theoretical total maximum (automatic plus manual) of 384 litres per minute.

 

[lustyd]

I feel like yours and the OPs are very different scenarios though. On a leaky boat it makes sense to be able to stay on top of ingress if it’s a small manageable trickle that can’t be sorted.

 

[geem]

After watching Zingaro have his issue I’d have to say equipment to seal the leak is far more important. Most bilge pumps have fairly meaningless rates when compared to the ingress he saw from a broken sensor. Once the hole was plugged they managed to empty the boat but all electrics were shot by that point. I wouldn’t consider it worth having backups of backups of electric bits unless you already have an installed and convenient power source above the water line.
with a manual pump half the battle is gravity so a long enough bit of hose to get into the water both sides is helpful. It obviously won’t syphon but you won’t have to lift water 2m either. Obviously if you don’t have a soft hose for filling water tanks then the standard garden hose would suffice there with a suitable fitting. A simple hand pump designed for paddle boards would do nicely there once the hose is filled.

Zingaro had batteries under the floorboards. No wonder electrics were dead. That's a design fault.
We have four electric bilge pumps. Total installed capacity via name plates is over 30,000 litres/hr. Actual calculated capacity is 19,500 litres/hr. We have no fitted manual pump. In an emergency the performance of a single pump is woefully inadequate especially when sailing as a couple. We would rather be hunting for the leak than having half the crew doing something pointless.

 

[jamie N]

"We have no fitted manual pump"
Geem; it'd make me nervous to not have a 'mandraulic' alternative.
I fully agree with you about having the batteries in such a vulnerable position below the floorboards though!

 

[lustyd]

I don’t disagree that it was a design flaw, but it’s a common one and the water was well above the floor by the time they sealed the leak so may well have entered a battery box above the floor. Also worth remembering that you’ll have various wiring in the bilge too so the batteries might not even need to get wet for electrics to fail or be unreliable. My engine and main switches are probably only 2-3 inches higher than the floor, and if a fuse blows do you want to be poking around your batteries with water all over the place?

 

[eddystone]

One manual bilge pump operated from cockpit, one rigid bucket, one collapsible bucket for redundancy

 

[lenten]

a jabsco pump belt driven off the engine------- better than any electric pump

 

[coopec]

This is what David Pascoe (Marine surveyor) has to say about bilge pumps.

Boats, Yachts: All About Bilge Pumps - Those Essential Devices for Keeping Your Boat Off the Bottom

 

[lustyd]

Wow, most marine surveyors say they couldn’t check the pump because it was under a loose floorboard ?

 

[ctva]

"We have no fitted manual pump"
Geem; it'd make me nervous to not have a 'mandraulic' alternative.
I fully agree with you about having the batteries in such a vulnerable position below the floorboards though!

The best manual bilge pump is a bucket and I'm sure he has one. ?

 

[Porthandbuoy]

Neptunian 33 long Keeller with rather shallow bilges.

Rule 3700 automatic bilge pump at lowest point.
Manual Henderson mkIII (new diaphragm & valves this winter)
1100 gph (nominal) manual electric bilge pump in the engine bilge which does not drain into the main bilges.
Two portable manual pumps.
Buckets.

A triangular piece of tarp, weighted along one edge with lines from each corner, which, with a bit of luck, can be used to cover a hole from the outside of the boat.

I’ve had to poke thin rods through limber holes, which were choked, to ensure any water runs aft to the Rule & Henderson bilge pumps.

Electric pumps will be connected to the ‘always on’ 12v bus.

To be honest I’ve never been a fan of automatic bilge pumps as you may never know you have a problem until your batteries run flat.

 

[Stemar]

I know the best baler is a motivated bucket operative,

I beg to differ. The best baler is one that buys you the time to sort out the leak...

Having said that, as mentioned above, none of the electric pumps generally sold for bilge pumps will keep up with a snapped through hull - but nor will the proverbial frightened man with a bucket. If you want to be able to deal with that, I reckon you need an engine-driven pump. I regard my bilge pumps as the way to get rid of rain that finds its way in or seepage from stern glands and the like; for a serious leak, I reckon it's press the big red button time.

 

[Stemar]

To be honest I’ve never been a fan of automatic bilge pumps as you may never know you have a problem until your batteries run flat.

If you can find an analogue car clock, wire it in parallel with the switch and set the hands to 1200. If it's ten to two when you come back, you've got a problem. I'm sure there's a clever digital solution, but I haven't got the skills to make it.

 

[bedouin]

If you can find an analogue car clock, wire it in parallel with the switch and set the hands to 1200. If it's ten to two when you come back, you've got a problem. I'm sure there's a clever digital solution, but I haven't got the skills to make it.

A standard engine hours meter wired in parallel with the pump will do it. It sounds like a good idea and I might look at fitting that to my automatic pump.