Bilge Keel vs Fin Keel - Moody 346

[Tranona]

The issue here is not about shallow water sailing, but the OP is asking about suitability for offshore sailing and whether choosing a bilge keel would mean potentially sacrificing too much sailing performance. The general consensus suggests not. Neither version is performance orientated but designed as a cruising boat so perhaps the real question is how good it is a long distance cruiser. Moodys in general are considered good, not just for their sailing performance but all the other characteristics that make them good for the job.

The only reservation seems to be its directional stability as described in post#13. Another regular poster here BurnitBlue who has one which he bought specifically for an eventual transatlantic but found in his early usage that it was not as well balanced or directionally stable as he would have liked. He is now in the process of selling it.

As suggested earlier, good idea to get a wider range of opinions on the model through the owners association

 

[Refueler]

Someone mentioned one aspect that BK's are a real pain for :

Below waterline maintenance between the keels !! A fin or long keel is a dream to antifoul ... but BK's ..... UGH !! Especially if its an older boat such as Moodys etc . where they tend to have quite a deep 'belly' unlike later twin keelers where the underbody is less full ...

 

[Tranona]

Indeed - an even worse if you have a long central keel like my GH. Had the bilge plates blasted and epoxied last year and now delegate antifouling to the young and lithe.

 

[Daydream believer]

. Had the bilge plates blasted and epoxied last year and now delegate antifouling to the young and lithe.

What are you doing mixing with "young & lithe" at your age. I gave up on them years ago.

 

[Refueler]

Indeed - an even worse if you have a long central keel like my GH. Had the bilge plates blasted and epoxied last year and now delegate antifouling to the young and lithe.

My Snapdragon 23 was triple keel ....... had central stub from the mould that could have Fin or Centreboard .... with two full bilge keels - not plates !

My Sunrider 25 has a full belly extending down between the keels ...

 

[Geofish]

Thank you all for your invaluable input! You've certainly provided me with much to ponder! To shed light on why I've been considering a bilge keel, there's a spot on the Norfolk coast where I plan to moor the boat for around year while I work on modifications and gain some experience on the boat. As the harbor dries out each tide, a bilge or lifting keel becomes essential. But my long-term ambition is to sail the Mediterranean and eventually make a transatlantic journey. A bilge keel isn't indispensable, but it would simplify matters and be more cost-effective in the short term. However, I was unsure of their appropriateness for ocean sailing.

I've been considering the Moody 346 because it seems to be an extremely comfortable cruiser and it checks many of my boxes, and has a bilge keel variant Also, its market price appears reasonable (although it's still beyond my budget, for the time being).

I don’t have experience sailing a boat with bilge keels and have been led to believe that they perform so poorly that they’re not even worth considering. Despite this, this conversation has reassured me that they’re definitely worth a second look. I’m intrigued by the prospect and would love the opportunity to give them a go.

 

[Geofish]

I have only sailed a bilge keel 346. It sailed pretty well: my only adverse handling comment was that the helm had little "feel", and you had to concentrate more going to windward than with a boat that had "feel" to keep it "in the groove". The bilge keels are fairly deep and I doubt there's that much practical loss of cruising performance over a fin keel version. You don't aim to cruise to windward that often! The other point is similar to most centre cockpit boats: harder work to see under the genoa.

Thanks for your response! I didn’t realise that about centre-cockpit boats, I haven’t sailed any! I always try not to sail to windward, but sometimes it’s like the wind choses to come from where I’m going! That’s interesting what you say about BKs being more tricky to handle upwind. I wonder if they become more responsive with more heel, so one keel is straight down?

 

[Graham376]

An old thread on 34/346 here - Anyone sailed a Moody 34 or 346?

 

[Geofish]

Over my ownership i had quite a few moody , 336, 30, 36 and 42 all fins and they sail pretty well Althought the 40 and 42 needed some wind to get them to sail fast .
I not sailed a bilge keel Moody but I did owner a Jag bilge keel 35 years ago plus and I didn’t at the time realised had bad it sailed to wind ward till I sailed a fin keel .
as for sitting a bilge keel on the ground , my experience was that one keel always found a soft spot or a hole .
personally if you plans is to cruise then I would go for a fin keel .
as for no plan to sail towind wards , I can assure you that won’t be the case .

Thanks for your response! It’s interesting you say that about cruising with a fin keel being that much better at upwind performance, everyone seems to agree.

As an experienced moody owner, what do you say for their build quality? I have heard mostly good things!

 

[sailaboutvic]

Thanks for your response! It’s interesting you say that about cruising with a fin keel being that much better at upwind performance, everyone seems to agree.

As an experienced moody owner, what do you say for their build quality? I have heard mostly good things!

I can't fault them as a good sea going boat ,
Build strong , like any other grp boat there bits that when you go to repair the designer don't make it easy , like the fuel tank in the locker on the 336 , there same with the 36cc 42cc the fuel tank is under the compan way which mean if you needed to get to it , you have to pull away quite a lot of wood way , thankly other then the 336 I not had any problems with fuel tanks .
On the 42cc we had problem with having t o replace the forward head pipe that was again a night mare having to cut inspections hole to get to the pipe .
As far as engine maintenance they all been good to work on the engine .
We lived full time on t he 42cc we loved the boat, because we are both sailors we been out in some awful weather, not once had we been any concern, as it happen some years back we got caught out in the Medcan we run with 52 kts of wind up our back side the boat never let us down .
The down side is if your a fair weather sailor the 40 and the 42 do need some wind to get up to speed at which point you be leaving the boat that left you behind in light winds, that's not to say they don't sail in light winds but not as fast as others .

 

[sailaboutvic]

May I just add , this business about sailing to wind ward ,
Unless you going to si and wait for how ever you be sailing to windward.
In April we set sail for Denmark , our sail to the Netherlands was NE , to windward, to Germany, to windward,
Only once out of the Kiel canal did the wind free for us.

 

[Aja]

I own a 346 and have done so since 2005 and have done quite a few thousand miles in the west coast of Scotland and elsewhere.

I can only vouch for Moody 346s sold through the Kip Marina brokerage, of the many fin keel 346s sold I know of only one (Elizabeth A) that was sold up north.

As for winning races, don't even think about windward/leeward but passage race are eminently winnable.

 

[Geofish]

In case the OP is not aware it might be that the Moody owners assoc has articles from historic publications on point . I would have thought it might also turn on your area and what’s local to you and harbours to tend to visit . Personally I would be more focussed on the quality of the engine on any Old Moody as opposed to the keels however bilge keels will give more berthing options hence being able to take cheap river moorings where fin keels might rest aground. Just be aware though that constant drying out on a mooring of a classic yacht might not have done the bilge keels favours -I don’t know if splayed bilge keels are an issue on a Moody but a fin wouldn’t present this worry. You will learn to sail with a bilge keel though and go with tide more but it might be wetter with tide against wind if tacking. You might however be able to leave later to enter your chosen destination on a falling tide if feeling lucky.

Thank you for the response, Your suggestion regarding the Moody Owners Association is much appreciated; I will certainly look into them!

You raise some valid points about local conditions. I do intend on initially keeping the yacht on a mooring ball at a harbor that drys with each tide, however I do ultimately intend on cruising in the Mediterranean and Caribbean. So a bilge keel isn't absolutely necessary.

Your mention of engine quality is certainly a factor I will not overlook. I understand the importance of a reliable engine, especially on an older vessel like the Moody 346.

The potential complications associated with constant drying out on a mooring are a valid concern. It's something I hadn't fully considered, and I'll do more research on how this might affect bilge keels over time, especially the possibility of splaying.

 

[Geofish]

I own a 346 and have done so since 2005 and have done quite a few thousand miles in the west coast of Scotland and elsewhere.

I can only vouch for Moody 346s sold through the Kip Marina brokerage, of the many fin keel 346s sold I know of only one (Elizabeth A) that was sold up north.

As for winning races, don't even think about windward/leeward but passage race are eminently winnable.

Thanks for your response! Is your M346 a bilge keel or fin?

 

[Aja]

Thanks for your response! Is your M346 a bilge keel or fin?

It's a fin....

 

[Geofish]

An old thread on 34/346 here - Anyone sailed a Moody 34 or 346?

Thanks I just read though that! It was very insightful.

 

[Geofish]

It's a fin....

Ok! It sounds like you find that even the fin keel isn't too great for windward sailing?

 

[Gsailor]

Hi, I'm looking for anyone who has hands-on experience sailing a Moody 346, be it the bilge keel or fin keel variant.
My primary concern revolves around the comparison of sailing performance between these two models. I understand the inherent advantages of bilge keels for cruising around the UK coastline, particularly their convenience for beaching and navigating shallow waters.
However, my long-term plans extend beyond coastal cruising. I have aspirations to embark on longer voyages, and I'm slightly apprehensive about potentially sacrificing too much sailing performance by opting for the bilge keel.
I'd greatly appreciate any insights or experiences you might be able to share about the Moody 346. Are there any noticeable performance trade-offs with the bilge keel when venturing further afield? Is the fin keel variant significantly superior in performance in open water conditions?
Thanks!

Fin out performs bilge in my experience time after time.

But sometimes when I had a fin I wished I had bilge keeler ( going coastal).

So if performance and deep water and deep water mooring etc, go fin for sure.

Maintenance is easier too if DIY.

 

[Aja]

Ok! It sounds like you find that even the fin keel isn't too great for windward sailing?

Not at all. I have new sails and a well set up rig and with this a M346 will track to windward very well for a slightly tubby 1980's designed boat. When in the groove we will quite happily get 38-40° and track through 110°.

Maybe not what is expected from a more modern design but with the cruising capabilities of the M346 is perfectly acceptable.

Maybe you have become too fixated on the fin/bilge issue and need to look at what your short and long term requirements actually are. If your current need requires a bilge keeler buy one - then if things change buy a fin?

 

[Refueler]

The potential complications associated with constant drying out on a mooring are a valid concern. It's something I hadn't fully considered, and I'll do more research on how this might affect bilge keels over time, especially the possibility of splaying.

Seems you have listened to too many doomsayers .....

Moody Bilge Keels are not as liable to splay as Westerly ... in fact I am trying to recall any Moody that I have known with splayed keels .. and I cannot recall any. Years ago - long before Premier take over of Moody's - I knew Moody's well ... my then Wife was friend of the sons.

Of course there is always the possibility ... but thats true for any boat literally.