Pye_End
Well-known member
And the ability to dry out on a sandy beach in the middle of the summer, free, for a scrub off or antifoul.
Bilge keel draught when heeled
- Thread starter Barton Seagoon
- Start date
srm
Well-known member
Yes, one of the things I liked about my catamarans.
Sailed in on the tide to a small sheltered sandy drying bay one evening. A local farmer kindly stopped to warn me it would dry out. He walked out for a chat the following day while I was freeing up a stiff sea cock.
mjcoon
Well-known member
Smacks of pollution, to me...
B27
Well-known member
I can clean my hull on the mooring at no additional expense, without taking all day to dry out on a wall and all that. So I don't need to antifoul so often. It's not great getting between the keels, but I can do most of it with tools on sticks. Shallower bilge keels would be worse, but a smaller boat might be slipped on a trolley.
NealB
Well-known member
I'd love to have a sail in a Red Fox or Red Fox Vision, with their twin aerofoil leeboards, that reportedly make 'windwardway' ( as opposed to leeway).
johnalison
Well-known member
To be honest, I do sometimes envy those who can dry out and do a mid-season scrub and clean the prop. I‘ve only done this a couple of times in many years. Once expensively and the other with a lot of effort. I do, though, say, interminably, that a bilge keel is only worth having if you really 8n tend to use its merits.
B27
Well-known member
It obviously varies according to where you moor, but for many people a 'mid season scrub' isn't enough.
If you are keeping your boat in commission or in the water for a large chunk of the year, then fouling, antifouling and hull cleaning become significant themes in yacht ownership. More so if you race, but also if you don't like a boat that sails like an outhouse. My views on that are influenced by racing other boats!
I think cheaper moorings are often more problematic for fouling, we're on a river so there is continuous water flow rinsing the active ingredients out of any paint.
This means IMHO, you have to look at the whole problem. You either scrub several times a year, spend a lot on antifoul, keep the boat out of the water a lot, or some blend of these things. Lifting, launching and storage out of the water can easily cost as much as cheap mooring. I wouldn't buy a boat without knowing how I was going to keep the hull clean any more than I'd buy one not knowing if I could get a mooring or afford a marina. A twin keel boat on a drying mooring is one solution to all that. I'd say a fin keel is only worth having if it's part of a better solution.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
And for me, owning, and owner maintaining, a keelboat and something else, the ‘something else’ ticks all the boxes. If I’m racng that, a swim is the way forward. It’s easy to reach every part of the boat for a good clean. You can do a fair job with a brush from the deck and the dock though. The single keel boat is next easiest. My neighbours have bilge keelers. Drying is essential for that. It’s not always easy to find somewhere suitable, especially in winter weather.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I do not know anybody who would even THINK about swimming to clean their hull whilst it was afloat.
There has been much talk about racing in the above posts. However, we know from the numbers that is not really important to very many.
There has been much talk about racing in the above posts. However, we know from the numbers that is not really important to very many.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
You do now. It’s how the entire XOD fleet in Yarmouth is maintained.
Snowgoose-1
Well-known member
Scrubbers used to be about who would dive and scrub the bottom for a price in many places.
Not seen theses days ?
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
We have a scrubber. However, if you want to win, you’ll be doing it as well as him. Race boats need cleaning twice a week in the season.
Snowgoose-1
Well-known member
Yikes..............
MisterBaxter
Well-known member
I almost bought a similar boat once, possibly based on the Red Fox mouldings but with a bigger rig. I had a good chat with the owner, who had raced it as lot, and he told me he'd tried a couple of different foil sections and various angle of toe-in; although he had managed to achieve negative leeway, the VMG was actually better with a couple of degrees of leeway. The boat lost more in drag with very high-lift foils than it gained in pointing ability. Phil Bolger says something similar in one if his books when discussing toe-in on leeboards.
I haven't sailed a Red Fox though so not sure how they've set their boards up.
Pete7
Well-known member
Us too and the ability to go places you would be wary of with a fin. Totnes, one of our favourite locations to escape for the weekend.
Whilst we have bilge keels, we did charter an identical fin keeled Moody. In all honesty, I couldn't tell the difference, sailing or motoring.
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Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
I’m 100% sure a well sailed bilge keeler can stay with all but the serious racers.the difference there would probably be the scrubbing. Unless you’ve just done between your keels, you’ll be nowhere.
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
Heaverns above! Scrubbing between keels or indeed around keels several times a season reminds me of those young men with shiny shiny customised cars and loud exhausts parading down our seafront. Their obsession is their business but seems pointless to many
srm
Well-known member
Depends where you sail. From what I have read it is common amongst long term cruisers in warm seas.
I did see a lady in a wet suit clean off their boat's hull after leaving it for a winter in Stromness Marina, Orkney. Sea temp around 10C. The locals always used the drying out hard standing against the harbour wall as it had water and electricity available.
I have snorkelled to clean my prop in the marina here, but sea temp is such that some hardy souls swim every day, all year round. Coppercoat looks after the hull for a few years between lift outs and pressure wash.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I said that I did not know anybody. I do not know any XOD owners, so my comment stands. I am surprised that it is the entire fleet. But if you say so, then it must be absolutely true.
If I want to clean my Squib, it is brought ashore, on its launching trailer & jet washed properly, then put back 2 hours later.
This thread is about the draft of bilge keels & has morphed into the pros & cons of bilge keels. I am sure that most are OK with that. But I can hardly see how a minority (& that is surely what they are) of hardy souls intent on racing count for much, when the vast majority cruise. I consider a bilge keeler a cruising boat. It does have a place in the sailing scene as can be seen by the high percentage actually built. But having had one, I cannot feel even the slightest bit impressed by them.
As for performance comparisons which is being bandied about; then obviously one has to compare like with like. Any boat with a dirty bottom is not going to perform at its best.
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Daydream believer
Well-known member
Out of interest has anyone researched the number of bilge keeled boats in current production? True there are many older ones on the market & this may well mean that manufacturers consider the market already saturated. However, I believe that some that try to emulate performance of lifting & fin keels do make bilge keelers. RM comes to mind. Are they still in production after the last buyout following the financial collapse a few years ago?
If one does produce a bilge keeler, it has to prove itself capable of a decent turn of speed, one might think.
If one does produce a bilge keeler, it has to prove itself capable of a decent turn of speed, one might think.