bilge float switches

[rogerthebodger]

It a simple electro/mechanical counter connected across the pump.

Combined with a float switch you will find that the pump pumps out the same amount of water each cycle depending on the type of bilge and the on/off pionts of the switch.

I fitted it so when I left my boat for say a month between visits I could determin the number of times the pump had switched on in the time between visits gave an indication of the amount of water that cane in between visits and so hod bad any leak was getting

RS do a simular to the one I used. There stock code No is 257-199

 

[ShipsWoofy]

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Combined with a float switch you will find that the pump pumps out the same amount of water each cycle depending on the type of bilge and the on/off pionts of the switch.

[/ QUOTE ]

duh, of course it does, engaging brain now!

So all you need to know as you go on to say is how many times the pump switches on while you are away. This makes life even simpler, a simple trigger counter is all I need, these tend to be kit 1 of most electronic build your own sets.

I can't believe how complex I was trying to make a simple solution.

Cheers

J

 

[rogerthebodger]

I went for an electro/mechanical counter and not a pure electronic as no power is needed to maitain the current count only to make it count so no chance of losing the count if the battery goes flat

 

[rogerthebodger]

I have a seperate gray water tank with auto pumpout for that which keeps the smell of the soapy shower water out of my living and sleeping areas

 

[DaveNTL]

Well I thought I'd done it and the pump ran when it was switched to auto and when I switched it to manual nothing happened - so i lifted the float switch and it tripped the circuit breaker /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

This is what I did -

1.connected one wire of the float switch to red, which I assume is live

2.joined the pump + to the other wire of the float switch together and connected them to neutral (black)

3.connected the pump neutral to yellow - which I assume is earth

where am I going wrong?

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Ok, logical steps and assumptions made by me, please correct if I am wrong

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<span class="small"> The high level one is wired separately as a back-up if the low one fails and runs the pump regardless of whether the 3 way switch is on or off.</span>

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I presume the working high pump is a totally different circuit and has no effect what-so-ever on anything else, it is the equivalent of the pump and auto switch clipped to the battery with crocodile clips.

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<span class="small">By trial and error I've come to the conclusion that the low level switch is faulty by holding it down and raising the high level one. When I do this the pump runs and the breaker doesn't trip.</span>

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Which switch are you referring to the low auto (float) switch or the 3 way switch on the panel?

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<span class="small">low level one - power supply has 3 wires, red / black / yellow from a 3 way switch auto-off-manual.</span>

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If I was to guess, I would suggest the person who fitted this used whichever wire he had available. If it was me, I would have wired as such (but, this will need confirming on your setup.

red - from fuse (CB) to switch centre pin.
black - from auto pin (the pin opposite to the toggle when set to auto) to float switch.
yellow - from on pin (the pin opposite to the toggle when set to on) to pump positive wire

You should as the diagram above shows, have the float switch connected between the black wire and the pump.

You should have the pump between the battery negative and the two wires yellow and the spare wire from the float switch.

** I have guessed the wire config, you will need to adjust the above to coincide with how your toggle switch is wired. (send me a photo of the back of the 3-way if you are not sure what I am asking).

[ QUOTE ]
<span class="small">Well I thought I'd done it and the pump ran when it was switched to auto and when I switched it to manual nothing happened - so i lifted the float switch and it tripped the circuit breaker </span>

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You have shorted the circuit to earth when the 3-way is set to auto and the pump switch (S2) closes. My guess, is that you have connected the on on S1 to the wrong side of the pump, so when S2 closes it is a short circuit to the battery. Move the cable from S1-ON to the other side of the pump.


[ QUOTE ]
<span class="small">This is what I did -

1.connected one wire of the float switch to red, which I assume is live

2.joined the pump + to the other wire of the float switch together and connected them to neutral (black)

3.connected the pump neutral to yellow - which I assume is earth

where am I going wrong? </span>

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1. You need to connect the wire from S2 to S1-AUTO
2. sttttoooop

We need to establish the colours and config. Do you have a test lamp / multimeter?

If not, a test lamp is the simplest. Get a 12v lamp (or bulb) connect to wires, one to each terminal of the bulb, or if a lamp one to each of the chocolate box type terminals. Strip a little insulation back from the free ends. ok. If you have a multimeter switch it to 20v DC.

Connect the common on the multimeter to earth (or any one of the two wires from the bulb.) This is now the -ve test lead. The +ve test lead is the free end if using a bulb or the red +ve lead from the multimeter.

First off we need to find the 12v feed, this is the wire from the CB to the 3-way. With the 3 way set to OFF, touch the +ve test lead on each of the pins where you have the red-black-yellow wires connected. One of them should read +12v or light the bulb. The +12v wire should be connected to the centre pin of the 3-way (no iffs, no buts).

When you have done this, you now need to work out the other two wires, switch to auto, now you should have 2 pins on the back of the 3-way reading +12v, the pin opposite the toggle as stated a few times now. What colour is this wire? This wire needs to be connected to S2.

Now switch to on, again +12v on 2 pins, opposite the ON toggle setting. What colour is this wire, this wire need to be connected to the <u>POSITIVE</u> side of the pump.

Now test to see if you are getting the correct feed at the business end of the circuit.

Put the +ve test lead onto the input side of S2, switch the 3-way to auto, this should give you +12v (if not put the +ve test lead to the +ve side of the pump, if this reads +12v you have connected the wires the wrong way around)

Just to check, switch the 3-way to ON, this should put +12v onto the positive side of the pump and not S2.

I suspect you have wired the pump back-to-front and hence the trip when you switch to auto, I also suspect when you have heard the pump running you have heard it running backwards. (I am happy to be corrected on this)

The -ve wire from the pump should only have <u>ONE</u> wire coming from it and this should be connected to the -ve terminal of the battery or a negative bus-bar.

I hope this helps, if you are still not getting anywhere, will you take some photographs to I can confirm colours and what is actually going on in your bilge.

 

[DaveNTL]

Many thanks - I've just been out to buy red, black and yellow wire - I'm going to extend the existing wires down below first because the effort is being made ten times worse trying to work bent over in an engine room and down a bilge.

I'll have a go at what you suggest and report back later. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[DaveNTL]

finished work for the day - I have now extended the three core wire red/black/yellow from the one supply and the second red and black two core

I have extended, clipped and identified (labelled) the pump +, pump -, and four float switch wires (two from each obviously)

below is the wiring schematic from the manual - I'm still sure I tried it like that once when it tripped.

I'd appreciate your comments and I'll set at it again in the morning as I'm assuming you're 5 hours ahead of me. cheers!


Shot with DSC-P200. at 1969-12-31

 

[Guest]

Sounds like you have shorted across somewhere so that when you use switch - battery is wham bham - thank you mam breaker kicks out.

Why not disconnect all ... wire up so that auto switch works. Then connect manual making sure +ve is where auto +ve is ... etc. etc. connected to pump.
Take in steps at a time adding till all in place without tripping.

 

[DaveNTL]

Thats a good idea - i woke up with a similar idea because i know how to do the float switch part now, it's getting the manual switch to work, and then the whole system to work in combination with the high level switch, without tripping the breaker.

I should have bought a simple terminal block so that i could do just that and experiment with the other combinations instead of fiddling about twisting wires. Only 6.45am here with a 20 mile round trip to the nearest equivalent to B&Q, so i might go there when they open. Got to sort it today because i leave the boat tomorrow.

 

[DaveNTL]

Sorted! The yellow wasn't earth it was negative so although I was doing it right, it was wrong... sorta thing /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

found this too

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Q. Did ABYC make a rule change that changed the color of the DC negative wire from BLACK to YELLOW?

A. No. Included in E-9 DC Electrical Systems on Boats since 1996 has been the OPTION of using YELLOW as an alternate color for the DC negative lead. If there is an AC system installed on the boat then the BLACK wire can also be the ungrounded (hot) current carrying conductor. An increasing number of builders are using YELLOW as the alternative to black in the DC conductor to avoid confusion. Confusion, I might add, that could result in a very bad situation when the AC hot is confused with the DC negative.

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Thanks for your help guys - esp dogwatch - i sorted it doing what you said.

Have a /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif on me.