bilge float switches

[DaveNTL]

At the moment I have a Rule pump mounted in a stainless steel strainer basket. There are two Whale float switches ( LIKE THIS )mounted at low level and high level in the basket. The low level one is wired with the pump and operates through a 3 way switch (auto-off-manual) protected by a circuit breaker.

The high level one is wired separately as a back-up if the low one fails and runs the pump regardless of whether the 3 way switch is on or off.

Well - the low level switch seems to have failed. Obviously this switch is the duty switch so it would fail first as it gets used more. The problem is, it is tripping the circuit breaker so the pump doesn't start.

By trial and error I've come to the conclusion that the low level switch is faulty by holding it down and raising the high level one. When I do this the pump runs and the breaker doesn't trip. Is my logic ok then?

Another problem is - I can't find those Whale float switches here in the USA - not only that, they're not listed by Whale, so maybe they're not making any more? The UK on-line chandlers are obviously still advertising them at 28 quid.

I can get Rule float switches here LIKE THIS for £11. Seems cheap and I don't want to be cheap on a bilge switch so, has anyone used them and are they ok?

West Marine do a float switch that looks suspiciously similar to the Whale switch, but only has one review and it isn't a good one. HERE So, also £11.

It's not the prices as such - there's a lot of stuff here the same number in $ as £, it's a quality question.

All comments gladly received.

 

[Guest]

I have a Rule 800 and a separate Rule switch .... both about 5 yrs old .... both working fine.
Judging by the sound of the ball or whatever inside the switch that knocks when it hits either end - sounds a very simple switch ...

 

[Bejasus]

I have just removed a Jabsco diaphragm pump and Rule float switch as the float switch was always sticking in the on position, and replaced them with 2 x 500gph fully automatic bilge pumps one on either side of the main bilge, teed together with checkvalves in the line. They turn on automatically every so often and if the don't sense any water after 1 second then they turn off again. Practically silent and have the effect of almost sponging the bilge dry.
Rule Bilge Pump

 

[DaveNTL]

thanks for that sbc - I'll get two new Rule float switches tomorrow and fit them, keep the whale as a spare and maye get another Whale switch from a UK chandlers.

Bejasus - that's interesting. I was reading about those Rule pumps that run to sense the water every now and then. I keep looking at installing a second bilge pump - i have one electric and one manual (hand) pump at the moment.

I considered teeing in with checkvalves but I'd rather have two pumping out through seperate pipes - downside is I don't want another hole in the hull really.

Out of interest - where abouts in Savannah are you? We were there last year at Hinckleys to get some work done.

 

[LadyInBed]

It's not the prices as such - Well, if that is the case, I would advise that you get the leak(s) fixed!
Then the pump and switch will stay within it's duty cycle.

Unless of course the whole system is thirty odd years old /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Bejasus]

We are at Sailharbor Marina in Wilmington Island. Boat is coming out in September for repainting and probably re-rigging too.

 

[DaveNTL]

I don't have any leaks, and it's a 5 year old Nauticat.

The shower discharges into the bilge - also, we've often been in hot places with airconditioning inside or cold places with heating, so there's quite a lot of condensation.

 

[LadyInBed]

I did wonder if I was completely off key - sorry for casting aspersions /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[DaveNTL]

that's ok, no offence taken /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm just making sure it does work incase i do get a leak.

 

[alan006]

I have to agree with bejasus. The problem with independant float switches is they can fail ( normally at the worst moment) or even jam on and burn out the pump motor. I've replaced all mine with automatic pumps and been very pleased with them. They draw very low current even whilst they come on every few moments to check for water. On an 18ft often dory I had one connected to a 75AmpHr battery which was left from December to March and it kept the boat dry and the battery was left uncharged.
I would not go back to using float switches.
alan

 

[rogerthebodger]

I used to problems with several of these moving arn type float switchs ( would replace every year) I then replaced with the Jabsco pnumatic bilge switch. Problem solved as switch not in the bilge water and no moving wires in the switch like this

 

[LadyInBed]

I gave this a bit more thought in bed last night!
The 'normal' way that a circuit is wired is:
+, cct bkr, float sw, PUMP, - (ground)
if the cct bkr is tripping, that suggests that when the float switch operates, the -ve (pump) side of the switch is shorted to ground, so bypassing the pump.
If you wire the circuit:
+, cct bkr, PUMP, float sw, - (ground)
Wiring it like this, your present equipment will work correctly.
Then, when you have replaced the switch, if the switch shorts in the future the worst that can happen is that the pump will be on full time (controlled by the cct bkr)

 

[Bejasus]

these Jabsco ones work fine except that they don't turn the pump on until there is at least 2 inches of water in the bilge and they turn off when it drops to 1 inch.
The Rule auto sensing ones are not only submersible, but they get rid of practically all the water. There are 2 versions, one of which can be wired into a fused auto/off/manual switch if required.

 

[DaveNTL]

Thanks everyone.

LadyInBed, you're right, I wired it up wrong /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

When I read the instructions for wiring the new float switch I realised that right away! I'm a plumber - what do I know about wires and stuff!! All the old terminal was burned out so .... that's my feable excuse. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Very worrying I know, but not as worrying as you going to bed thinking about my bilge. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[DaveNTL]

grrrrr - fixed the heads today but then started on the bilge pump again..... now I'm having a beer and cooling down /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

right then! two float switches, one high, one low - high is no problem - it's got it's own 2 wires that go to 2 wires.

low level one - power supply has 3 wires, red / black / yellow from a 3 way switch auto-off-manual.

i wired it back up (couldn't see old configuration - it had burnt out) and it runs on the float switch i.e. auto - but now it doesn't on manual - it did before even with partly burnt out wiring.

so wise people - why isn't the manual working and how do I wire it?

 

[ShipsWoofy]

here you go.

S1 is a 3-way toggle switch, but if you are only using a 2-way just omit the off position. The centre pin on the switch should go to the +ve terminal via the fuse.

The two wires from the float switch should connect between the +ve side of the pump and the terminal marked auto on the 3-way toggle.

hope this helps, I can alter the diagram if you wish to add a bell for example.

J

 

[rogerthebodger]

Below is the sort of switch panel I used with a simular circuit given by dogwatch.

The counters give an indication to the number of times the pump is automatically operated when away from the boat showing how bat the water ingerss is becoming.

 

[DaveNTL]

Thanks guys Ill get onto that then - might have to look at the back of the switch - thats what I was avoiding.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

How accurate are you cycle meters, are they reading time or in fact somehow reading the true revolutions of the pumps. I presume if the latter you have to buy specialist bilge pumps, I have always fancied adding some method of monitoring the pumps while away.

Especially as last week after returning the port pump started up while we were tying off the moorings, now I am aware the stbd window in the heads has a leak, but the port hull is generally 'tight'. I found the port stern tube dripping away so saw to that, but that really is firefighting and not preventative maintenance. I was thinking about timers, but the pump is only on for a second or so at a time, it needs a better method than that, I would have thought.

Most 'systems' are ridiculously expensive, I am looking for a simple diy method to monitor, any ideas gratefully received.

J

 

[DaveNTL]

Run meters wouldn't tell me much, apart from how clean and cool we are, as the shower and AC condensate runs into the bilge, and so far, touch wood, thats the only water that goes in there.