Big bad seas

[zoidberg]

Preferring not to hijack the intriguing 'Adlard Coles Fan Club' thread here, I'd mention Rupert Holmes' PBO article and offer this small extract....

"a British research vessel encountered a significant wave height (the mean height of the largest third of waves) of 18.5m (61ft), with individual waves up to 29.1m (95ft).

....radar images taken by European Space Agency satellites found 10 rogue waves, each of which was at least 25m (82ft) high.

.....more rogue waves have been measured, including one of more than 21m (69ft) at the southern end of the Chanel du Four off the cost of Finisterre in north-western France, during Storm Ciaran on 2 November, last year.

Of the three enormous breaking waves I’ve encountered in 85,000 miles of sailing, the first was deep in the Southern Ocean, ....the second roughly 130 miles west-north-west of A Coruña in Galicia...

The third was closer to home, 10 miles south of the Lizard Point"

.

 

[cherod]

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Preferring not to hijack the intriguing 'Adlard Coles Fan Club' thread here, I'd mention Rupert Holmes' PBO article and offer this small extract....

"a British research vessel encountered a significant wave height (the mean height of the largest third of waves) of 18.5m (61ft), with individual waves up to 29.1m (95ft).

....radar images taken by European Space Agency satellites found 10 rogue waves, each of which was at least 25m (82ft) high.

.....more rogue waves have been measured, including one of more than 21m (69ft) at the southern end of the Chanel du Four off the cost of Finisterre in north-western France, during Storm Ciaran on 2 November, last year.

Of the three enormous breaking waves I’ve encountered in 85,000 miles of sailing, the first was deep in the Southern Ocean, ....the second roughly 130 miles west-north-west of A Coruña in Galicia...

The third was closer to home, 10 miles south of the Lizard Point"

.

Strictly there are no rogue waves, there is simply wave interaction. Consider the ocean as a giant diffraction grating. At the point where two wave streams coincide they may add to magnitude or reduce depending on the timing. In stormy weather the interactions are quite complex but wave heights of about twice the local heights are fairly normal

 

[Biggles Wader]

Back in the 1970s I was on a 12000 ton ship that got hit by a very large wave. Did a fair bit of damage and completely submerged the hull to well above main deck level. The ship was a strong Belfast built slightly overengineered plodder and up she came after a lot of shaking and shuddering. At that time the boffins were adamant that waves that large could not exist. They were wrong and video evidence from various sources has recorded such waves many times more recently

 

[RunAgroundHard]

North Sea production platforms have had to be erased against against the 200 year wave, that now arrives every 50 years, from a statical perspective. Also semi submersible vessels have had lower structure windows removed and structure erased for the same reason. New builds are now built to a specification for different wave criteria than 20 years ago.

Perhaps the changes are more to do with the volume of wave data now being generated and better accuracy of measurements, rather than a fundamental change in size and frequency of large waves. I don't know, that just a guess on my behalf.

 

[Biggles Wader]

North Sea production platforms have had to be erased against against the 200 year wave, that now arrives every 50 years, from a statical perspective. Also semi submersible vessels have had lower structure windows removed and structure erased for the same reason. New builds are now built to a specification for different wave criteria than 20 years ago.

Perhaps the changes are more to do with the volume of wave data now being generated and better accuracy of measurements, rather than a fundamental change in size and frequency of large waves. I don't know, that just a guess on my behalf.

I think the changes have come about because the "experts" have had to accept they were wrong about the possible size of the waves and the bean counters have had to beef up some of the scantlings accordingly. As long as the scientists said these waves were not possible there was a get out of jail free card for the owners. Once evidence clearly showed the impossible actually happening something had to give. I suspect many a ship has been lost with all hands and no witnesses to "impossible" large waves in the past.

 

[capnsensible]

Preferring not to hijack the intriguing 'Adlard Coles Fan Club' thread here, I'd mention Rupert Holmes' PBO article and offer this small extract....

"a British research vessel encountered a significant wave height (the mean height of the largest third of waves) of 18.5m (61ft), with individual waves up to 29.1m (95ft).

....radar images taken by European Space Agency satellites found 10 rogue waves, each of which was at least 25m (82ft) high.

.....more rogue waves have been measured, including one of more than 21m (69ft) at the southern end of the Chanel du Four off the cost of Finisterre in north-western France, during Storm Ciaran on 2 November, last year.

Of the three enormous breaking waves I’ve encountered in 85,000 miles of sailing, the first was deep in the Southern Ocean, ....the second roughly 130 miles west-north-west of A Coruña in Galicia...

The third was closer to home, 10 miles south of the Lizard Point"

.

Only 85,000 miles? Lightweight.

 

[veshengro]

Tales of giant waves have been told for Centuries and usually dismissed as Sailors yarns until modern observations and research have proved otherwise. In 1961 I was in a Tramp Ship bound for Havana, Cuba, with a deck cargo destined for Fidel's Sugar Cane Industry. The Cubans used to buy retired London Transport buses, just the chassis with engine and comically the Driver's seat, the body was replaced in Cuba with open backs to use as Lorries or their own transport bodies, wooden bench seats etc:

We found ourselves in Hurricane Carla, the 'Safe' quadrant..Yeah! Ok!.. The buses chassis were on the fore deck, stacked in pairs head to toe up against the forward bulkhead of the midship housing. Also on the foredeck were two stacks of metal pipes, again for the Sugar Production Plants in Cuba. Sometime between 04.00 and 08.00 the First Mate's watch we shipped a huge sea on the port side just by the break of the foc'sle, not the first sea she had shipped but certainly something out of the ordinary. Pipes stacked on the port side and all four buses, port and starboard went over the side together with the ship's rails on the starboard side. Chains and lashing wires simply parted, and a couple of the pipes, about 15 feet long and a foot in diameter got wedged between the cargo winches at the forward end of number two hatch, but they were bent like drinking straws.

The sheer power of those big seas is unbelievable, the weight of water to strip a deck cargo and swing a 7,000 ton ship through 50 degrees or so of compass heading makes you feel like an Ant..

 

[capnsensible]

Breaking waves have always been my personal doom bringer. Have not experienced anything like that on a yacht, but in another world had some interesting moments in northern waters.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Breaking waves have always been my personal doom bringer. Have not experienced anything like that on a yacht, but in another world had some interesting moments in northern waters.

Only yourself to blame. If you had dived to 300ft you would have felt nothing!

 

[capnsensible]

Only yourself to blame. If you had dived to 300ft you would have felt nothing!

I didn't have to blame myself. My captain was quite capable of blaming me, loudly, should I be a tad off with trim......

 

[rogerthebodger]

There were rumors that giant waves happened along the East coast of South Africa due to the south running current along the east coast and any north winds coming across the south Atlantic and the traveling up the east coast south to north

 

[zoidberg]

"It's a white hell out there...!"

As for #10, he probably didn't HAVE 300' spare to dive in.
( Don't answer that, capnsensible! )

 

[zoidberg]

And I'll bet his charts were marked-up in fathoms...

The Latest Survey details like as not referenced 'lead-line surveys' by RN vessels exploring around Svalbard a century and more back.
I'm willing to bet the approaches to Polyarny Inlet are now better detailed than the Approaches to St Peter Port, CI.
( Don't answer that, capnsensible! )

 

[14K478]

And I'll bet his charts were marked-up in fathoms...

The Latest Survey details like as not referenced 'lead-line surveys' by RN vessels exploring around Svalbard a century and more back.
I'm willing to bet the approaches to Polyarny Inlet are now better detailed than the Approaches to St Peter Port, CI.
( Don't answer that, capnsensible! )

I have myself used a BA chart of an inlet on the coast of Spitzbergen marked:

“From surveys by Lt Parry, RN, and the boats of HMS Hecla, 1826”.

 

[Frank Holden]

There were rumors that giant waves happened along the East coast of South Africa due to the south running current along the east coast and any north winds coming across the south Atlantic and the traveling up the east coast south to north

Not rumours.
South westerlies gales blowing over south west going Aghulas current, typically off the Transkie coast around Pt Shepstone/Port St Johns out near the 100 fathom line. Some think it involves iregularities on the sea bed.

Around 1970 ish quite a few ships severely damaged including a Ben Liner which ended up rather badly bent and a new Singaporian or Malaysian containership which broke in half and sank.

Experienced it once on a loaded 100,000 ton OBO. Not so much a big wave but a big hole in the ocean. We were slow steaming at about 7 or 8 knots into a fresh sw'ly. Sea wasn't too bad. On my watch - suddenly one wave top missing and just bloody great hole, down down down she went, buried the full front end in the next wave, ship disappeared up to about midships. Speed - on the SAL log - of about 120,000 tons of ship and cargo dropped on the instant to 1 or 2 knots.
She had been built for Norwegian owners and had the enclosed lookout cab at the top of the foremast, I think at loaded draft about 70 feet above the sea. Glass window with clearview screen was smashed. Foremast bent back maybe 5º, focsle deck cracked frd of foremast.
Much the same area where 'Waratah' had been lost some 60 years earlier.

Did a lot more damage coming out of Port Philip on a Ro-Ro on a strong ebb in the '90s. Different circumstances and a story for another time.

 

[14K478]

The Ben Line ship was the “Bencruachan”:


This was after the temporary repair; she sailed back to Britain like this.

The NOL boxboat was the “Neptune Sapphire” and I was peripherally involved as a young lawyer in that.




Most of her, aft of the bulkhead between no.1 and no. holds, was salvaged on Lloyds Form by Smit.

As usual where nobody gets hurt in a spectacular casualty, it had its amusing side. The Master was abruptly woken by a tremendous bang and rushed to his cabin window to see the bows of a ship scraping along the side. He was rocket propelled into the wheelhouse where, moments later, he started to say, “What the…” and was met by the 2/O (these things only ever happen between midnight and four in the morning) with the words “That was our bow, Sir!”

She had been built at Wartsila and classed with DNV and was on her maiden voyage. NOL sued DNV and Wartsila, on the grounds that the front fell off and they had paid for it to stay on.

DNV struck a deal whereby they turned over all their records, thereby sinking Wartsila, in return for being let off, and promptly got a private Act through the Storting whereby you cannot sue DNV, turning all their overseas operations into mere agencies.

 

[Frank Holden]

The Ben Line ship was the “Bencruachan”:

View attachment 183651
This was after the temporary repair; she sailed back to Britain like this.

The NOL boxboat was the “Neptune Sapphire” and I was peripherally involved as a young lawyer in that.
View attachment 183652


As usual where nobody gets hurt in a spectacular casualty, it had its amusing side. The Master was abruptly woken by a tremendous bang and rushed to his cabin window to see the bows of a ship scraping along the side. Arriving moments later in the wheelhouse he started to say, “What the…” and was met by the 2/O (these things only ever happen between midnight and four in the morning) with the words “That was our bow, Sir!”

She had been built at Wartsila and classed with DNV and was on her maiden voyage. NOL sued DNV and Wartsila. DNV struck a deal whereby they turned over all their records,
thereby sinking Wartsila, in return for being let off, and promptly got a private Act through the Storting whereby you cannot sue DNV, turning all their overseas operations into mere agencies.

My memory is failing, I thought she sank.
Several others come to mind, RMS Edinburgh Castle in the mid 60's 'shipped one green' all the way back to the bridge front - 12 to 4 - 2nd mate's name Bob Dohby. An RN cruiser in WW2 whose name I forget, and a big swede in the late sixties which had her focsle squashed flat back down almost to main deck level

 

[zoidberg]

An RN cruiser in WW2 whose name I forget

Would that have been the cruiser that went west one night into the Pentland Firth in a full Atlantic gale, buried the pointy end into The Merrie Men O' May and - when the bows rose - the Number One Turret was gone, completely gone....?

 

[Frank Holden]

Would that have been the cruiser that went west one night into the Pentland Firth in a full Atlantic gale, buried the pointy end into The Merrie Men O' May and - when the bows rose - the Number One Turret was gone, completely gone....?

No this was one that went the almost full submarine off the SA coast.
I went through the Merrie Men O'may on my first trip
Sunny day - flat calm