Best Yacht Designer in the GRP Era

[Seajet]

I remember being at the Elephant Boatyard in the 80's when a tripper boat ( ' Wight Scene ' or Solent Scene ' ) turned up with the tannoy on full, ' that's where Jack Rolfe works, there's where Tom does the designs and over there's Ken Master's bit '...

Completely agree re Dick Zaal and the Contests; David Sadler had one for his blue water retirement days, and I don't think one can get a higher accolade than that.

 

[Daydream believer]

That's rather a one dimensional view of the purpose of yacht design. Fine if you're a shareholder in the company, but not at all relevant if you're caught out on lee-shore in a F7.

So can you tell me a current modern AWB from any mainstream builder will NOT sail off the lea shore you are talking about.
There are a few old designs that i would not want to try in though

 

[Wansworth]

Having worked in a Glass fibre boat making place I can vouch for lots of bodging going on and laminators been givenjobs which they had no specific plan as to what they should apply.I was given the job of glossing in ply knees in a Seawolf and basically I thought if it was my boat I reckon it should be good and stong....so it was..... not scientific at all.,. just an example of how reality was.

 

[evangeline44]

German Frers designed to my mind the prettiest GRP boats.

Swan 46 and 53

First 435 and 51

What about the F&C 44 (Frers & Ciblis) - German Frers Dad's yard in Buenos Aires.

 

[eidiohir]

Pity. It was getting very interesting

 

[Concerto]

Having worked at Westerly (the first one) I would also say that when the first Westerly went under that the were well on their way to understanding GRP construction and probably further ahead than (the government subsidized) French boats.

Westerly did not go bust because of yacht building problems - it went bust because it used ALL its working capital to buy ALL +3 more factories at the start of Maggi's recession. Without that utterly mad decision they would easily have weathered the troubled times.

Having recently talked with the managing director of Westerly (at the time they went bust) about the circumstances of their demise, your comment is not quite true. The adverse exchange rate meant that British boats were too expensive compared to continental built yachts. They went to the Frankfurt boat show and came away without an order and virtually all dealer pre-ordered boats being cancelled. The bank learnt of this trading problem and they called in the company overdraft, which was only taken out because of the purchase of an extra building for expansion. It was the bank who bust the company. Strangely once in administration the company became very profitable, hence was reborn.

Sorry about the thread drift.

 

[ANDY123]

For showing the way the new material could be used it has to be one of the French designers who got into curved surfaces and did away with sharpe corners, which just imitated wooden boat construction

??

 

[RichardS]

Inappropriate Content is a stupid name for a Yacht Designer. I blame the parents! :encouragement:

(Only peeved 'cos I missed all the fun!)

Richard

 

[sarabande]

Inappropriate Content is a stupid name for a Yacht Designer. I blame the parents! :encouragement:

(Only peeved 'cos I missed all the fun!)

Richard

That would make a good name for a boat's tender...

 

[adwuk]

I give you.......

......Tom Howard

Hah! The MG Spring 25 - a mass produced quarter tonner. A masterpiece by the Tony Castro design team, who I worked for at the time. Unfortunately, I drew the short straw and had to drive to the Pebble Mill studios to operate AutoCAD for the film crew

 

[Tomahawk]

Incidentally not sure osmosis has ever been significant on European built boats, but of course they never got into large volume construction until later. No doubt somebody will correct me if I am wrong.

Fontaine Pajot recently had a serious issue with their Lavezzi 40 range.
Seems everyone got the pox within three years. They used cheap resin....

 

[Tomahawk]

As to designers... I give you Gerrard Danson.

He managed to design a pretty looking cat.. then I am slightly biased.

 

[sailorman]

Having recently talked with the managing director of Westerly (at the time they went bust) about the circumstances of their demise, your comment is not quite true. The adverse exchange rate meant that British boats were too expensive compared to continental built yachts. They went to the Frankfurt boat show and came away without an order and virtually all dealer pre-ordered boats being cancelled. The bank learnt of this trading problem and they called in the company overdraft, which was only taken out because of the purchase of an extra building for expansion. It was the bank who bust the company. Strangely once in administration the company became very profitable, hence was reborn.

Sorry about the thread drift.

Often the case

 

[E39mad]

Hah! The MG Spring 25 - a mass produced quarter tonner. A masterpiece by the Tony Castro design team, who I worked for at the time. Unfortunately, I drew the short straw and had to drive to the Pebble Mill studios to operate AutoCAD for the film crew

I liked the Spring especially the way it sailed and accomodation for size. I didn't like the ankle breaking side sloping side decks when upright. The rigs on the early ones were big issues (they came down!) as was some of the fit and finish before Northshore took over - even then there were issues due to inherent design. They sold almost 200 units in a short space of time which must be one of the biggest successes (sales wise) in the UK marine industry.

 

[dunedin]

Having recently talked with the managing director of Westerly (at the time they went bust) about the circumstances of their demise, your comment is not quite true. The adverse exchange rate meant that British boats were too expensive compared to continental built yachts. They went to the Frankfurt boat show and came away without an order and virtually all dealer pre-ordered boats being cancelled. The bank learnt of this trading problem and they called in the company overdraft, which was only taken out because of the purchase of an extra building for expansion. It was the bank who bust the company. Strangely once in administration the company became very profitable, hence was reborn.

Sorry about the thread drift.

By your own description it was NOT the bank who broke the business. That is commercially naive.
Sounds like what broke the business was
- squandering the business working capital buying an extra factory that it didn't need - looks like a huge own goal
- lack of orders - no new orders at boat show and many existing dealer orders cancelled
- exchange rate movements making the boats unattractive to export markets (and perhaps not as efficient as other European builders anyway)

So sounds like the business broke itself, with a bit of help from sterling expanse rate. Shame as some quite nice boats, but perhaps had rested on laurels from previous success and not seen overseas competition coming.
If they had not squandered their capital there would have been no bank loan to be called in. And with poor income the bank was probably making a reasonable assessment of the commercial corner the directors had chosen to get into

 

[Seajet]

I liked the Spring especially the way it sailed and accomodation for size. I didn't like the ankle breaking side sloping side decks when upright. The rigs on the early ones were big issues (they came down!) as was some of the fit and finish before Northshore took over - even then there were issues due to inherent design. They sold almost 200 units in a short space of time which must be one of the biggest successes (sales wise) in the UK marine industry.

I once shared an old International 14 with a chum, we found it was desperately slow so painted it yellow and called it ' Coward's Way '.

I rather fancy ' Inappropriate Content ' for a name, I think we can stand by for a rash of tenders called that !

 

[Tranona]

For a cruising boat I think it is quite essential that there is very good resilience to grounding. That is probably my only problems with owning some of the modern designs. High aspect ratio keels whilst being much better for sailing must be a nightmare for the designer to build in a certain factor for grounding.

The modern internal bonded structure is also a nightmare for surveyors to check the structural integrity of the hull. Its a wonderful looking construction method .....but.......

The possible negative consequences of grounding have always been there, although of course potentially more severe with high aspect ratio keels. However that is so accepted that people adjust what they try to do with their boats in recognition of the issue. If you sail in areas where grounding is common, such as Scandinavia where nudging up bows to on rocky foreshores is a recognised way of anchoring then it is not surprising that boats are designed with this in mind. Even there, though long keels and cutaway forefoots are falling out of fashion, perhaps reflecting the growth in marinas and quay anchorages.

The YW article quoted earlier summarised what reliable statistics that are available and it shows few failures (that lead to losses) are the direct result of design or construction but mostly due to grounding or poor repairs. I share your concern about modern construction methods, although now on my second boat built in this way. The first one did 7 years as a charter boat in Greece where as you know banging rocks is common, without any damage. However I think that it is rather like modern cars where the structure is designed to be deformable rather than resistant. Therefore on the rare occasion that grounding seriously damages the structure, repairs might involve more than just slapping on extra glass and resin. This came out strongly in Cheeky Rafiki enquiry where there was no clear consensus on how to deal with such repairs and a recommendation for further research into the subject.

 

[Nicholas123]

Anyone mentioned C J Roy? Anyone that could design the Macwester 27 mark 2 had to be a genius :encouragement:

 

[doug748]

The most novel quote for me on this link:

http://www.yachtingworld.com/news/keel-failure-shocking-facts-60006/4

Is from Pantaenius man Jonathan Reynolds:

"Any unreasonable delay in undertaking an inspection after grounding may result in an insurer rejecting a claim and hence this could leave an owner liable for any repairs or consequential legal liability in the event of a loss of life."

The sort of thing that we often hear on these Forums and which always sounds a bit far fetched; maybe not so much now. Perhaps I should worry, I am insured with this lot.

Tord Sunden BTW + all the others of course

 

[Seajet]

The simple fact is, during a boat's life she can expect to be run aground, possibly quite quickly into a hard object.

I am not holding up my boat as a shining beacon of perfection, but just as an example there is a tufnol strip at the aft end of the keelcase to work as a shock absorber, hopefully preventing the tapered keel from butter-knifing into the hull on impact.

When looking at a boat before purchase one doesn't need to be a surveyor to look for signs of the keel/s being pushed up at the upper trailing edge, one of the first signs of a hard grounding.